If even one exists then I’m confident many exist, simply because once you have a working product it’s a hell of a lot easier to build more (even if you had to do it painstakingly by hand) than it is to fabricate a whole bunch of beta users and ask Tested to risk their reputation demoing something that doesn’t exist.
Or to put it another way, creating the Glowforge in the first place was the hard part - once you’ve succeeded in proving it can be done, scaling up is vastly less risky. Manufacturing is hard and takes time and money up front, but it’s a relatively well understood process that is unlikely to sink a company taking their time to tick all the appropriate boxes along the way.
I was worried Glowforge would simply fail to create the product they had advertised, but now that they have, I’m not worried they will fail to manufacture them. It’s unfortunate that there are delays, and it’s understandable to get angry, but I’m not worried about whether we will get our units
I am very disappointed because I am working on two family weddings and had promised them that I would be making them table decorations and favors so this makes me so sad.
Dan, would you consider putting units in maker spaces or other places where we could book time on a Glowforge? I recognize that this might not be the most thought out idea logistically, but I would love to be able to experience one in person and maybe at least make a cake topper or two.
This would allow people an opportunity to get a little jump start, maybe do a simple project or two, and help keep us patient as we wait for our units.
Thank you for your consideration of this request or maybe a variation of it.
Good news everone! We’ve all seen the specs and are thinking of what we can do. But really, if there’s no quality, no specs in the world matters. You would be even angrier if you had to send it in for service every second month.
And this is where I get off this ride. This has been a colossal disaster. I could care less what Adam Savage says, don’t care about the videos, or the rest of the ‘perks’ for selling us on a product that never really existed. Thanks for wasting my time, order cancellation being sent in ASAP.
Updated: 12/2/16 Detailed list of concerns
Updated: 12/4/16 Dan responds, no decisions made.
I am going to repost this from the other topic as it doesn’t appear @dan is responding there.
Dan,
I really can’t help but feel a sense of betrayal by this latest announcement. I backed Glowforge within a couple days of the public announcement when the site said shipping starting December 2015. It’s pretty obvious in hindsight there was zero chance you were making that goal. Not the most ethical way of selling a product, but shipping delays are expected to some extent when crowdfunding new companies.
You have made up for that by being very accessible and open with the community and your cancellation policy made me keep my order. I became an evangelist for Glowforge on my personal and professional social media where I have over 121k followers. I argued for you and your company and I convinced people to buy Glowforges and many others to visit.
When you delayed the second time I was concerned, when you delayed the 3rd time I was disappointed. But you said my Glowforge would get here for Christmas and I gave you and the project another break and waited. The depth of your concern for the quality of the device was reassuring. Glowforge was going to be a serious tool that was high quality. But after 17 months, it just doesn’t cut it.
I am not going to threaten to cancel or anything dramatic because I don’t know what I am going to do yet. But my faith and confidence in you and the Glowforge company is gone… completely.
At this point my question is why should I trust you and your company? You have blatantly deceived us about the shipping date originally and perhaps in subsequent updates?
Harsh question, but one I think we deserve an answer to at this point.
–
Update 1:
I am going to edit this since there was a ton of responses from @Dan over the last night. This post is updated as of 3:17PM PST on 12/2/16. I encourage @dan an to add his responses directly below each item in this post so people don’t need to wade through 268 messages (at the moment) for answers.
Topics and responses, reduced to major points for brevity: (This will seem harsh, but it’s not sunshine and roses right now). I am a customer since August 2015 with $4270 paid for a Pro with Filter.
@Dan has admitted he failed us, is sorry and feels terrible. I am sure he does, but he has repeatedly ignored requests for accountability from many of the 268 posts now in this thread. What is accountability potentially look like?
Accountability is rebuilding trust with the community through open lines of communication and managing our expectations better.
Changing the way @Glowforge communicates with the community, by doing more than once a month updates. @Dan likes to say the team is too busy to give updates, but the reality is he has $32,270,000 in capital, not including the money we paid for our Glowforges. He can afford to hire a full time person to focus on this role and it would not be a significant drain on the team.
@Dan continues to refuse to provide a detailed roadmap with targets and milestones to reach the launch date. Communicate if you have a setback and how that changes the launch date.
@Dan and @Glowforge have knowingly misrepresented and withheld information to the customers concerning the status of the launch and the Glowforge.
@Dan has consistently used responses to forum posts that dismiss or mislead the customers.
@Dan has acknowledged he has failed to properly manage the Glowforge team and its development process. With over $32M in funding on top of the pre-order money @dan should have had access to any expert he needed, especially considering his partners. @dan will only say that the team is working 100% on making the next date and implies we should trust him, because he means it this time. For many, including myself this answer isn’t good enough and @dan needs to share specific plans for how he intends to fix the problem with Glowforge and deliver the product.
@Dan uses the full refund in a passive aggressive or dismissive way to deflect legitimate concerns from the customers.
Overseas customers have paid over $8,000 in some reports due to international shipping, but if refunded would not receive a complete refund due to changes in the currency values.
@Dan has offered a bonuses to people who have ordered as an apology. Most overseas customers can’t use the bonus because of shipping and customs costs.
The actual cost to Glowforge for proof grade materials for this is minimal and is a loss leader to get people to try the proof grade materials and continue to buy them. (Speculation)
The free items from the catalog are owned by Glowforge (except the Catan tiles) and represent a zero cost to Glowforge. (Speculation)
The instructables bonus is not usable by international customers and could represent a income stream for Glowforge if they have an affiliate relationship and will see revenue for new users who sign up for Instructables. (Speculation)
@Dan responded to complaints that customers had lost the interest on the money the paid. @Dan claims that they have made $22 per person in interest. This seems like a small number, until you look at the numbers if @glowforge made 10% (2016 median bond rate) they have made a profit of $2,922,331.76 on the first 30 day purchases. (Speculation)
At the end of the day what it comes down to is @Dan abused the trust of the customers. It’s easy to say you are sorry and be contrite. Dan needs to prove through immediate action how he will rebuild the communities trust.
Is ridiculous and @dan can do a hell of a lot more than to rebuild the faith and trust the community has given @Dan and @Glowforge by trusting them with $45,000,000 in sales as of the last public report.
I really hope that @Dan will respond to this updated thread.
UPDATE 2: 12/4/16
12/4/2016 3:51AM: Update from @dan
Yall are crazy if you literally think this is a scam, like there are two glow forges in the whole world being dangled in front of us all as an elaborate hoax.
Glowforge is a startup company making the least expensive/easiest to user laser cutter ever tried. If you don’t understand the complexities of that concept, you’re too ignorant to take seriously. They are just a small company that bit off way more than they can chew. This latest update sounds like they are finally at the point they said they were at a year ago. So hopefully this next deadline is the winner, with real progress that can be communicated on a regular basis, instead of a couple of updates during the final days before deadline.
I just thought I would toss in my 2 cents really quick
I know that I want a great product, and all the little finishing touches I’ve seen them put into the pre-release units make me even more excited for the day to day projects I can make years after I receive it
I would like to ask one thing that personally is very important to me: if I’m going to be staying strong with this product, I would very strongly like to request the option to upgrade my purchased GlowForge at the rates that were available when I placed my initial investment
After seeing what can be done with the GlowForge with its normal sizing and such, the possibilities for that pass through slot of the pro version sound amazing! But I simply cannot afford the roughly $2000 price increase that is currently available for me.
I put money down for the basic with air filter, and I think it would have been $500 or $1000 more for the pro at that point. I could handle that at this point, but couldn’t think to spend as much as it initially cost me just for the upgrade >~<
I hope this request isn’t seen as too unreasonable, and that there may even be many others that would like the option to invest more at their originally available price difference
No surprises. So @dan . Are you going to put up and provide proof. I’ll take back my cancellation if you do. Otherwise, my advice to everybody else is: get out before the last people do. They’ll be stuck holding the bag.
I had a feeling this was going to happen… I’m obvoiusly bummed but I’d rather have something that works than a pile of trash… with that said please don’t over promise and underdeliver again… this can’t keep happening.
This may have been covered but I haven’t been able to keep up with the boards… I’m mostly worried about people who used my referral code. I was only able to get 4 people to sign up, but each time this is delayed it’s another chance those people will cancel and I’ll lose out. That really sucks. People only have so much patience.
I don’t really believe it’s a scam, but you are making crazy interest off the preorder money and the conspiracy theorist in me is like . While I don’t know the exact protections from my payment method I’m worried I’m out of luck if something bad does happen. Yes I realize I can have my money back at any time, but if I keep waiting…?
Will all of these secret features cause even more delays?
Finally, you have thousands of dollars of my money. I think you should send out more regular emails. I don’t have time to sort through the posts and considering the thousands you have, I am fine with an email here and there. I’m sure others are too.
For 100 reasons, but to pick one. Glowforge has had multiple capital investments beyond the initial pre-orders for units. The only way you get rounds of investment dollars is by letting those companies complete due diligence on your business. If things don’t add up, they don’t invest. Do you think there is some investor with $20MM sunk into GF after seeing 1 glowforge in a motel room somewhere?
Im still with ya’ll !! Its sad but I want a great machine and if waiting has to be, it’ll just have to be. Thanks for your hard work and I hope everyone understands. Just my two.
This is now the 3rd delay, I ordered the Glowforge Pro with filtration without a care in the world, due to the marketing and fantastical videos demonstrating a near ready to ship product. I really should have just bought a Mr Beam and been making little projects all along rather than dragging along these senseless and near useless updates. If completely alienating their customers was a worry, it’s definitely happening now. Next August will without a doubt turn into next February. I don’t care to stick around to find out if it ships or not, I’m already let down at myself for falling for this trap. I even sold off a laser I was planning on mounting to my x-carve actually expecting them to come through this time. I no longer wish to be a sucker, alAdam Savage and Tested’s credibility is shot just as much as Glowforge’s is as far as I’m concerned.
People have seen two GFs in the same place at the same time, think maker faires. Pretty sure anyone who has done the tour of the GF offices has seen more than two in the same place at the same time. You say you live in Seattle, even though I think you meant the statement as a veiled threat, why not ask for a tour?
Why is it so impossible? Too many people to keep a secret that big for so long … somebody would break.
I’m very sorry @dan but all of your wonderfull offers for us international costumers are just a bunch of lies… we can’t order the instructables and all those “wonderful” things basically because THEY DONT SHIP TO SOME OF OUR COUNTRIES:… you keep on giving excuses and bonuses that work PERFECTLY for your USA based clientele but what about some of us who live abroad!? I’m sorry but I really need an answer on this situation … I’m very very pissed off and I’m sure you or anyone of your team won’t man up to some sort of reply to this …
. While I don’t know the exact protections from my payment method I’m worried I’m out of luck if something bad does happen. Yes I realize I can have my money back at any time, but if I keep waiting…?
