International ProofgradeTM shipping

I had not connected the proofgrade parcel to customs fees yet. That’s another import tax and handling fee I’m going to have to pay. Whenever that inventables certificate comes in the mail I’m going to sell it to try and cover the fees.

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So I’m now able to answer my own question ahead of Glowforge!

£31.72 GBP (around $44 USD@0.72)

Was broken down as the following:

Import VAT £20.47
Brokerage charges £11.25

The value of the goods as listed is $73.23 and UPS have used an exchange rate of 0.703(and lots more numbers after).

So as things stand the free proofgrade materials for the UK will cost you £31.72.

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:-1:

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May I go so far as to say:

:-1::-1:

I know, I know, double thumbs down is quite strong, but with the “beast from the east” and now these “rates from the States”, I feel the occasion warrents such response :wink:

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GF really need to change what they put on the invoice or compensate on the GF invoice. It makes no sense that you pay VAT on more than the total price you have paid. If GF have given you free PG then effectively they have discounted the GF price because for the original price you paid you have got both a GF and the PG.

Or maybe as you suggested the PG could be marked as commercial samples.

The only extra you should pay is the brokerage charge. I think that could have been avoided by shipping the PG with the GF as a three package consignment.

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I honestly have no answers of what if anything can be done going forward. I’m personally not bothered by it and should be able to reclaim the VAT element and write off the brokerage fees.

Would be nice with these shipments and units going out in the not too distant future to get some resolution to the other post on a similar matter to this:

Don’t think we ever got a reply to the above, unless I’m mistaken?

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Yes if you are a VAT registered business it doesn’t really matter but for the rest the EU customers it does. I was VAT registered when I bought it but not now.

£20 is too much on VAT on $73.23, so I expect you have been overcharged. There is a form for correcting it but the last time I looked at it I decided my time wasn’t worth it.

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The VAT doesn’t add up @20%, maybe there’s something missing from the invoice that was presented, such as shipping etc. I’ll have a look into it later.

I can see how the charge for the proofgrade is going to be irksome or other descriptors for Glowforge customers. Would be nice to have another view on this, cough @dan, cough cough @Rita, cough cough cough, Glowforge………….

What usually happens is the shipper omits the shipping from the invoice. Then customs make up a fictitious value based on weight and charge VAT on the invoice value plus that.

Just uncovered some secret footage of the clearing house where they decide on the duty amounts…

Wow. Big if true :wink:

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Thing is in NL I get charged roughly 21% import fee over product+shipping cost and an €11 brokerage fee.

With $73.23 = €59.99 I’ll be looking at in the range of €25,- depending on the shipping cost.

Just looking at the paperwork that came with the shipment it says on both the packing list and commercial invoice Inco Term(s): DAP Delivered Duty Paid.

Having a quick google does this mean that Glowforge thought they were paying for the duty and other charges?

If it says Inco Terms DDP then it should be duty paid and you don’t need to pay anything.

I’m not International for Glowforge so don’t really have a dog in this argument. Still, unless I’m missing something in the discussion, Glowforge is sending $150 in Proofgrade and listing it as $73.23 worth of materials for International purposes? Maybe wholesale value? I confirmed that the Proofgrade shipped to me would have cost $150 in the U.S. Sounds not too shabby to me.

Import VAT isn’t something I would want to pay but it’s what countries do. We don’t here.

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The point is it is free so we shouldn’t have pay VAT on it. Since there is no such thing as free it is really included in the price we paid for the GF and its shipping , so in total we should only pay VAT on that sum. However for that to happen GF have to fill in the invoices correctly.

For example if the PG was in the same box as the GF and the invoice stated what was paid then the correct VAT would be charged. If it is sent in two shipments we should not have to pay any more.

A matter of interpretation. I’m sure your Government would disagree. If I win a $25000 automobile in the U.S. on a game show I still have to pay the full income tax for that free award. If my neighbor gives me $10,000 I am legally required to list it as $10,000 of income. Not that I would. Just that it’s the law for my location. What you want is for GF to declare the product as zero value. Which it is not.

VAT is more like our sales taxes, not income tax. Sales tax is based on what you actually pay for an item, not its intrinsic value. VAT should similarly be based on what is actually paid.

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GF are not giving out free materials. We have paid a fixed sum and GF have sent some goods. We don’t get taxed on the perceived value of the goods, we get taxed on the actual value it cost. The invoices should add up to what we paid, not a higher sum. That would be false accounting.

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I’ll step out. I personally believe that what you are asking would be false accounting. “Value” added tax. But I don’t live there and have a different sense of my values than you. So enjoy the discussion.

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