This is why lawyers charge by the hour. I see the point of both sides.
GF’s sales invoices should add up to what we paid them. The invoices they give to customs should match that value. Nobody paid an extra $73.23 to GF so they should not invoice us for it. If they produce an invoice to say we paid $73.23 that is false unless they subtract from the price of the GF on its invoice. Then it would be correct.
For your further research. No comment from me.
Yes they would be free gifts and taxable if GF sent them out of the blue. But they have only sent them because we paid them for the GF, so it is effectively part of that purchase. Same with the crumb tray. That has some value and if GF send it separately they would have to attribute a value to it but they should subtract that from the GF invoice. Hopefully that will be part of the same consignment with a single invoice.
We don’t pay income tax on gifts, we pay capital gains tax but only if our total gains for the year are above a substantial threshold, £11,700. So if my neighbour gave me a GF I wouldn’t pay any tax but he would pay import VAT importing it.
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Here’s the original invoice that came with the package. Looks like the total declared value is made up from the freight charge as the price of goods is listed as zero. The original invoice left by the driver just shows $73.23 listed as value.
I’m hoping that the note of Inco Term DAP Delivered Duty Paid means that Glowforge are picking up the tab for these shipments. I think Glowforge may be a little busy at the moment so a response may not be forth coming even though I understand it affects basically every international customer in relation to the Proofgrade shipping.
As a matter of curiosity and because I’m taking more or less another snow day tomorrow I might call UPS to ask about how they (or customs) came to the charges they did.
Thinking about retitling this post to “When is free not free” or “ProofGate” 
Also in the Glowforge shop what’s the total for all the materials that we’ve been sent when you add them to the cart?!
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So did you pay the driver or not? If it was DDP you shouldn’t get charged. I get stuff from Mouser DDP because I buy it from Mouser’s UK web site but they ship it with UPS from the US.
Yes paid in full. Here’s how it went,…
I inform the person taking delivery that a nice person will come with a package, there may be money to pay, but whatever it is just pay it.
Driver comes, oh no, petty cash no good, people panic, try to call me but I’m on the phone, driver goes. Sad faces. No problem, call UPS, pay money, driver come back, I has package, I happy. I has long discussion thread about money and shipping, I no happy, I think about laser coming, I happy again 
It’s also late (see above).
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Wall of text, standby! Are these two terms mentioned on the supplied invoice complimentary or contradictory?
DAP – Delivered At Place (named place of destination)
Incoterms 2010 defines DAP as ‘Delivered at Place’ - the seller delivers when the goods are placed at the disposal of the buyer on the arriving means of transport ready for unloading at the named place of destination. Under DAP terms, the risk passes from seller to buyer from the point of destination mentioned in the contract of delivery.
Once goods are ready for shipment, the necessary packing is carried out by the seller at his own cost, so that the goods reach their final destination safely. All necessary legal formalities in the exporting country are completed by the seller at his own cost and risk to clear the goods for export.
After arrival of the goods in the country of destination, the customs clearance in the importing country needs to be completed by the buyer at his own cost and risk, including all customs duties and taxes. However, as with DAT terms any delay or demurrage charges are to be borne by the seller.
Under DAP terms, all carriage expenses with any terminal expenses are paid by seller up to the agreed destination point. The necessary unloading cost at final destination has to be borne by buyer under DAP terms.
DDP – Delivered Duty Paid (named place of destination)
Seller is responsible for delivering the goods to the named place in the country of the buyer, and pays all costs in bringing the goods to the destination including import duties and taxes. The seller is not responsible for unloading. This term is often used in place of the non-Incoterm “Free In Store (FIS)”. This term places the maximum obligations on the seller and minimum obligations on the buyer. No risk or responsibility is transferred to the buyer until delivery of the goods at the named place of destination.
The most important consideration for DDP terms is that the seller is responsible for clearing the goods through customs in the buyer’s country, including both paying the duties and taxes, and obtaining the necessary authorizations and registrations from the authorities in that country. Unless the rules and regulations in the buyer’s country are very well understood, DDP terms can be a very big risk both in terms of delays and in unforeseen extra costs, and should be used with caution.
Still hoping Glowforges intention was not to place burden on customers for what is in essence a welcome thank you for waiting.
Yes DAP is orthogonal to DDP I think. If it was DDP UPS should not have charged you.
At my address the UPS driver is happy to take cash, or was, it is perhaps a year or so since I had to pay duty. I will find out tomorrow. All the other carriers don’t take cash. Some send an invoice after delivery and expect me to pay by bank transfer. Others hold it ransom and I have to pay online by credit card to get it delivered.
I used to import from all over the globe and didn’t matter what parcel service, they always demanded cash and exact cash. No cards, no nothing. And no note in advance either. I had a lot of trips to the post office to pick up my parcel so I could pay with a card. Who pays cash nowadays?! At least for the bigger services that has changed.
Also 20% VAT on $73.23 at an exchange rate of 0.703 is only £10.30. How did they calculate £20.47?
I have to stand with rpegg on this one. We did not buy “Glowforge + Crumb Tray +$150 PG.” Nobody knew they were going to get $150 PG when they clicked order. We bought “Glowforge + Crumb Tray” and they decided to gift us the $150 PG as a token of goodwill for messing up so catastrophically on getting devices to people when they promised they would.
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No but does that have any relevance? You pay a sum and import some goods. You should be taxed on the amount you paid for those goods and the shipping. If it had anything to do with what you clicked on two years ago it should use the exchange rate then, not now, but it doesn’t.
The relevance is that is precisely a gift and therefore is governed by the laws regarding gifts… it wasn’t bought or payed for, and that is last I checked the definition of gift. Or has Glowforge redefined what a gift is now too?
Let me just add that I agree with you, a free gift should be free. International customers having to pay import fees or taxes of any kind on this free gift is rediculous.
All I’m trying to say is that I think it is reasonable for Glowforge to consider the PG a gift, and that the laws regarding gifts should be followed. It’s annoying GF doesn’t seem to be picking up the bill for the PG import fees (VAT, ect.) But it would be incorrect for them to mislabel the value.
It isn’t a free gift because you only get it if you pay them thousands of Dollars for a GF. That gets you a GF, a crumb tray and some PG in separate packages. If GF had made it a three part consignment with a single commercial invoice showing what we had actually paid for those goods then we would get taxed the correct amount. Sending an invoice with the PG that says we paid for the shipping is not true. We didn’t pay that invoice, GF did from the money we paid them. They just made less profit.
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Okay, I see that point… you’re right, sorry for adding to the confusion.
That bring said, have you never heard of a gift with conditions? Like, “buy this item and I’ll throw in this other one for free”? I guess that counts more as a discount/deal than gift… nevermind 
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We assign a customs value of $150 USD to the Proofgrade Starter Pack. We also reduce the customs value of the Glowforge by $150.
I see you’ve also emailed us about this and other questions pertaining to your account and we’re handling it there, so I’m going to close this thread. If you have other questions, please start a new topic or reach out to support@glowforge.com
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