Not exactly. $900-1000 gets you in the size & power ballpark. You want what is advertised on ebay as a 50W machine (the advertised power of these is the upper limit when overdriven which shortens tube life - my “40W” is actually 32W). The 40s have a work surface of about 12x10" depending on the mods you do the the bed that comes with it. Most of us rip out the stock bed and put in our own to get to something in the 12x10" range. The 50W Chinese lasers are almost all at least as big as the GF (12x20).
A 3K Chinese laser starts getting you into the 100-130W and 600 or 900x1200 bed size with adjustable Z-axis and a pass thru.
What it doesn’t come with is good support, local knowledge, auto focus, line trace, proofgrade materials, design library, etc. It may or may have basic safety features like lid interlocks, chiller or air interlocks, etc.
What it doesn’t come with is good support, local knowledge, auto focus, line trace, proofgrade materials, design library, etc. It may or may have basic safety features like lid interlocks, chiller or air interlocks, etc.
One simple sanity check to the Wattage Wars is to find out the tube length. There are high and low quality tubes, and some processes that can squeeze extra juice per millimeter, but to a first approximation, tube length is a great indicator of power. For example, if someone’s selling a 1000mm tube, it’s reasonably going to clock in at ~50W but you sometimes see them sold as 80! (The Glowforge is an 850mm tube, if you’re curious).
Yeah I’m surprised when people don’t accept the physics involved and keep arguing that the vendor said it was X so it must be even though the tube is just too short. The Chinese lasers all seem to overpower their tubes to determine the advertised power. It’s like the old days when we overclocked PC CPU chips
Technically they’re correct, the tube will generate that power…for awhile. Except you’re hastening its demise. I have a laser power meter that I use to check the power but mostly to keep an eye on the tubes as they age.
One of my operational rules is to never run the lasers at more than 95% power. I’ll run the job a little slower so it still accomplishes what I want. There are people who argue that if I have to run it 10% longer then I’ve put more total stress than if I ran it at full power for a shorter time. But I believe (but don’t have the test bench I’d need to verify this) that the power vs stress (life span) curves are non-linear and there are “cliffs” where the increase in materials stress in the tube (and rate of breakdown of the gas & internal components) goes up exponentially. Sort of like running a car at redline is far harder on it than running it for many more hours at 2K RPM.
You can get 45W peak out of a standard CO2 tube. There are things you can do to a tube’s design to improve output power within the same length (sometimes requiring a bit more diameter) as well as internal pathway and terminal design. The Pro has improved cooling and I thought I saw a thread where the tube is actually different between the two models. Some tubes (like Reci) routinely get 10% improvement in output vs standard tubes (but at higher $ ).
This is exactly what we did, I have better immediate use for $4000 than letting it sit in Glowforge’s accounts. We cancelled our order and are going to wait and see what the feedback is for the final product when regular folk start using it in real world situations. I can only assume there will be a version 2 or 3 that will better/faster/stronger at some point. I don’t mind missing out on the pre sale price if I can comfortably invest my money in something that has all the kinks worked out. Besides, the continually delayed delivery timeline already made any of our original plans for the Glowforge null and void. To their credit, they did process the refund quickly and without any hassle.
OK… Humor me while I indulge in a little thought process. I really mostly want to do vector cuts and the nearest alternative would be the Full Spectrum. Software is not nearly as snazzy as what we are promised, but usable. The reason the GF appealed was the all in one solution. Such other lasers as I have used had bulky and noisy venting and air blowing pumps requiring building in to proper workshops. Mine will have to be in a room in my house. The question is what external devices exist that could make a usable setup, reasonably quiet ( although we do not know the GF’s sound level) and convenient enough without any requirement for construction. There seems to be a lot of expertise out there, are there any actual use scenarios?
That was definitely a point in favor of acquiring one of these. Trying to put something outside in a 100+ degree garage in the summers around here would be suicidal.
I expect this will be a little noisy while it lazes, but so are 3D printers, and i expect to be watching it while it does it’s thing anyway.
If you can make it out to a Maker Faire… there are practical scenarios right in front of your eyes. Sufficient (maybe not proper) ventilation and cooling (for at least a little bit of cutting) right there in a booth space.
Glowforge was up and running at the one I attended. They had filtration under the desk (not the Glowforge official filters), and when wifi was working the lasers ran pretty non-stop so cooling was adequate.
Of all the other lasers on display, only two I can think of were running. One was a beastly large unit that took up half of the booth all by itself (I didn’t look for cooling and ventilation though), and the other one was a bit larger than Glowforge, and had all of the ventilation and cooling in the space below the table.
Full Spectrum’s Glowforge equivalent was at the Faire, but was not running. The lack of a bottom makes that one impossible to properly vent, so likely they weren’t allowed to run it at all (or there could have even been a ban on Class IV completely)
I have to say that I have enjoyed the limited time I have spent with my Chinese laser. As for support. I have to actually say it is pretty good. They have video chatted with me on Skype and walked me through some issues. Their support has been available 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Not that I am selling anyone on them, but their support has been very good.
The bed size is great and the z-axis control is something I don’t think I could live without. In my free time I am still working on a design for my big project, laser designing a new entry door.
I went ahead and got Adobe Illustrator so I’m learning to use it. I’ve got the function of the machine down. I just need to practice my artistic skills.
At the Long Beach NBM they had quite a few lasers running on the floor ( I can think of about 6 or 7 that I watched cut). They all had some sort of filter attached ( although like I mentioned in another post - you could smell if someone nearby was cutting acrylic). The only thing besides the high pricepoint ( they were epilogs and trotec mainly) was the size - they were the size of an entire office desk or larger. But lasers are soooooo awesome
Well, I don’t have a FSL yet, but I had met with them in person last week because I am researching options for our school’s makerspace. I found the sales rep to be very upfront and honest about their technical support. They are a small (but rapidly growing) company, so if you have paid for their premium technical support, you will get the most attention. However, they do their best to handle email support within 24-48 hours. He was very clear that they can’t just drop everything they are doing for every problem. Working in a small company myself, I do understand where they are coming from, so I am personally okay with it.
The fact that the machines are designed and assembled in LV, and that the entire engineering team is there makes me feel good enough that there will be some kind of support to get us through rough patches. I think my technical experience will be enough to troubleshoot everything but lasertube-specific issues.
I can post more once we are actual owners and are running the FSL P24 at school, but I would not assume that they are unworthy of consideration because of some past bad experiences. Everyone deserves a chance to improve their reputation in the marketplace.
