There are two sides to the story, probably 4 in this case. Glowforge, Flex, UPS and the customer. We have heard the customers side. I doubt we will hear the other three. My only doubt is if the customer has left the forum/returned the unit for a refund.
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I donāt know about that, but he did leave the Facebook group.
Yeah, that was certainly how i read it
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He didnāt do anything - because it wasnāt even his.
Either way - Iām outta this discussion. 
@scottmillersb, I canāt talk about any customersā 1:1 communications with us. But three facts that might be useful:
- We warn customers that if they want their Glowforge delivery now, there may be cosmetic flaws.
- Sometimes units arrive with damage and need to be replaced.
- A machine that had the problems described in that post would be eligible for replacement with a new machine off the factory line.
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@dan I completely agree with not discussing individual customers issues. I am hoping to understand what level of cosmetic flaws is acceptable. A bad/hard to close door is a huge pain and potential laser leak problem. A scratch, I really donāt care that much.
Iād just like to understand where the threshold of what is deemed shippable.
Thanks!
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This is the first Iāve heard of this. Iām surprised none of the recipients of a production machine have mentioned this warning in the forum!
Personally, cosmetic defects donāt mean much to me, but if they do mean a lot to someone, I assume they can ask to defer shipment until cosmetic defects are rare. I wonder what time frame shipment would be for that case?
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Iām not sure if it was mentioned prior to this thread, but the terms that are agreed to before the GF is shipped are pretty clear in this respect. However, it seems to be to primarily cover the case where GF may make some minor changes to the aesthetics of the machine as they continue to refine the build process; I am sure they donāt want prior recipients to ask for replacements.
Mine was received with no noticeable defects; except the lid issue that people have discussed before; where the top sides are not completely flush with the lid.
Yes, you can defer acceptance of the GF if you do not agree to the current terms.
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As far as I can tell, every single unit produced so far he had the same uneven bow between the lid top and sides top. Donāt think it is a build issue but is just how the molds turned out. Repeatable but not art perfect. Completely, a non issue functionally and is not something most of us even noticed. They will probably change the design at some point to make it cleaner but only the most anal of us will want to wait that long.
I would bet that the cosmetic issues talked about in the release are not cracks, deep scratches or difficult to open lids. Those are more likely shipping damage. Though I find a tight lid helps with repeatable alignment.
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I didnāt even notice it until people started talking about it 
Itās so minor on my PRU that it looks like a design choice. Iād never have bitched about it. (Which is why even beta & PRU programs arenāt enough to insure a smooth production rollout )
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Fully understand being upset about unit damage or functionality issues. If production QA is lax then other fit issues could be a problem. That said, some donāt seem to understand the price point they bought into. My GF seems to be built surprisingly solid and has some great capabilities. Iām satisfied with what has been released thus far.
Capabilities still to come, if they work well will be outstanding improvements in the feature list. But I wouldnāt be too anal about cosmetic things. Most of us bought the GF becaue we were too cheap to buy something three times the price. We paid Yugo prices and shouldnāt expect Bugatti lines right off the bat. Though GF seems to want to produce the best, it will take time for a small company to get there.
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I think this is a significant problem. I understand constructive criticism, and I understand why some people would be upset about mistakes, etc.
However, Iāve thought for a while that there are some people in the forum that just want to be negative. There is no reason that I can think of that some people would stick around if they keep harping on the same complaints over and over again. This is one of the reasons that I am not more active in the forum.
Like any other business GF depends on customers. If people donāt believe @dan or the rest of the GF team are doing their best to deliver a good product, they should request their refund and go elsewhere. Or, if they donāt believe that GFās best is good enough, they can do the same.
Do I think @dan could be more transparent, of course; I think that is almost always true. But, I have also spent a lot of time in my career dealing with lawyers, executives, clients and public relations people. Working in the information/cyber security space, messaging is always carefully crafted when it might possibly be used in litigation, or might impact liability. There are well-known cases where placement of single commas have impacted the outcomes of lawsuits. Iām sure some people will interpret this reply in slightly different ways; we all come from different perspectives.
It has gotten to the point that despite any complaints I might have about GF messaging, production schedules, delivery, etc, I give @dan credit for putting up with some of the excessive and repeated negativity in this forum; especially when he or the GF team are called dishonest. Criticize the messaging, make requests for clarity, or request a refund if neither of those meet your satisfaction.
Those of us that believe GF is going to be worth it will obviously stick around. From the limited amount of time I have been able to play with the machine since receiving it last Friday, I think my investment was well worth the money and the wait.
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Please donāt let that impression dissuade you from sticking around (and participating). I think the reality is that itās a small but vocal minority. Weād all love to see what youāve been making (Made on a Glowforge)! Seeing as the majority of orderees and recipients are in the same boat as being pretty new to this realm of making, and that there seem to be a ton of use cases, everyone has a great opportunity to learn from everyone.
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Yes, you should definitely not let that keep you from hanging around. We could use your input. 
This has happened on every forum Iāve participated in. I call it the āThis-is-it!ā jitters. There isnāt any way to help with that, folks will decide to take delivery or not for themselves when they get the letter.
Iāve found that the best option for me is to just block the threads and/or people that I donāt feel are contributing anything other than their opinions. That way they wonāt bother me any more, they can live their lives the way they want to, they can help each other through whatever issues they have, and I can enjoy the machine and go on to make things without all the negativity that I find so destructive.
There are plenty of people that I think you might like to get to know here. They are doing really great things, discovering a lot of new techniques, and generally having a great time with it. 
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There are all sorts of personalities on here and in life. We have the full spectrum: eternal optimist - complete pessimist.
I happen to fall in the middle and refer to myself as a realist. Sometimes to the point of Heinleinās Fair Witness standard. I actually find both ends of the spectrum to be equally impassioned personally. I have had forum members tell me my questions are inappropriate because the company is ātryingā or ācould go out of businessā so they shouldnāt be challenged. I attribute that to a Stockholm Syndrome like relationship that has been created by years of putting our money behind this product. We also have others that will attack the product theyāre still buying even though they arenāt canceling. I still believe that for the money, Iām getting the best CO2 laser at this wattage.
My point is that I like and need to read multiple points of view in order to inform myself. I believe wholeheartedly that itās important to never silence anyone who isnāt advocating violence. After all no one on here truly impacts our lives unless we let them. I choose to read everything and everyoneās opinion and form my own.
Sorry for the rambling but its my first coffee of the morning and I think I should have waited until Iād had a couple.
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QA approved this? 
I for one, want a Glowforge, not a Frankenforge.
That item above does not even look safe. A class 4 laser is not a joke, nor should the casing be that it is put in.
I donāt want my Glowforge to remind me of an Easy Bake Oven.
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More of the same āif youre not happy, just leaveā commentaryā¦
Just the same, there are people like me, who donāt post more often because if anything negative is said about what is going on, a large portion of the community seems to shout that person down. Thereās probably a lot out there like me as well judging by the number of disgruntled people in other forums and Fb groups for the glowforge that arenāt present here.
Ive said it before, and I suppose Ill say it again. It is entirely possible to believe that there has been deceptive practices and yet still believe the the company is ultimately honest enough that I will receive what I bought. I can believe that there have been missteps and poor communication and sill believe that I will eventually get my machine. The two outlooks are not mutually exclusive.
Honestly there are probably a lot of people like me out there who have considered canceling many times but ultimately donāt because all of this would have ended up a colossal waste of time. If we cancel now, we were out that money for all this time and wasted a lot of resources and energy preparing for a machine that we never get. Perhaps canceling earlier would have been an easier pill to swallow (which would have required real, hittable timelines to know that was necessary) but at this point, the money has been gone so long that canceling doesnāt make sense anymore. At least if I stick it out, I end up with a machine for all the trouble.
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I like this. Kudos.
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I think that part of the argument in this thread is from perceived value.
If you think the Glowforge compares to the ~$200 K40 units, then you are overpaying and your ~$2,000 justifies an expectation of flawless physical appearance.
If you think the Glowforge compares to the ~$15,000 industrial laser units, then you are getting an insane deal, and your ~$2,000 comes with an expectation of some cut corners.
I saved every screen of documentation available after you get your email for shipping. So those of you who have not had the email yet can read the reasons why Glowforge thinks you may want to delay shipment, and all of the things we agree to when we say we want our machine now. The TOS files were copied into Notepad++ and then printed to PDF, since the web browser printing wouldnāt include full contents of a scrollable container.
Glowforge Shipping Verification - Glowforge Shipping Verification.pdf (208.3 KB)
Glowforge Shipping Verification - Glowforge Shipping Verification - p2.pdf (237.1 KB)
Glowforge Shipping Verification - Glowforge Shipping Verification - p3.pdf (248.9 KB)
Glowforge Shipping Verification - Glowforge Shipping Verification - p4.pdf (225.4 KB)
Glowforge Shipping Verification - Glowforge Shipping Verification - p5.pdf (231.8 KB)
Glowforge TOS.pdf (65.6 KB)
TOS.pdf (69.6 KB)
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Not trying to be argumentative but there are others who are aware of both. I know about the cheap crappy lasers and about the insanely expensive ones. Personally I donāt compare to or put glowforge in either camp. I donāt think theyāre in either market. I feel like they are creating a middle tier market where you get to bypass the cheap laser frustrations without jumping into massively deep waters financially. Which is good, there arenāt many lasers occupying this space. That being said, the glowforge is by no means cheap.
Ultimately my perception is just wanting what I was shown in the marketing. I donāt expect absolute perfection, but I didnāt see dings and flaws in theyāre video either. I want what was shown both in performance and aesthetics.
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