From reading the FAQs before I ordered, they had stated they wanted to start shipping in December, and all pre-orders in the next few quarters.
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By definition, a startup refers to a new product development. I agree the wording in the announcement was overly optimistic, and led to assumptions (from me too) - but the highest level of optimism is a requisite to roll the dice and throw your resources and yourself into an arena of this magnitude. I don’t fault them for that. The assumptions were mine.
Then there is the fact that life on earth requires us to put that little piece of rubber on the end of a pencil - best laid plans of mice and men and all that.
No one has complete control over the future, and if you think you do or someone else should, you are delusional - or perhaps just overly optimistic, eh?
I have trouble seeing a standing offer for a full refund as condescending, it’sjust the bottom line. Not satisfied? No problem - your refund is on its way.
What does fit that definition is referring to anyone who expresses a higher level of trust/confidence/patience than you do as a “Kool aid drinker”. (Burp). 
I read that as intentionally derogatory.
IMO use of that term implies a level of inferiority to anyone who holds a different perspective. We all have different perceptions
Nobody here resides beneath anyone else, and I personally would refrain from making that distinction.
Nothing wrong with being skeptical, but deriding anyone who doesn’t share that view is misplaced frustration.
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So now the people who ordered are at fault for assuming it was December 2015? When it clearly stated December 2015 ON THE ORDER PAGE, no mentioning of it being “beta”, that is where you have that type of disclosure (An asterix, something).
Look at the other thread with the geekwire article (emphasis mine) - not the only ones with that impression:
“Glowforge, which last month raised a $22 million funding round, has delayed shipments of initial orders twice. The company’s original plan was to start shipping the “first units” in December, two months after the crowdfunding campaign ended. But in February, Glowforge said those shipments were delayed, telling the initial backers who pre-ordered during the 30-day campaign that they’d now receive their printers in June.”
Like @jdodds mentioned, the slick marketing video, coupled with a 3 month delivery window was an incentive to a lot of us (myself included). That we are 1+ years from that point in time for a potential deliverable shows how far it actually was from being a production ready product.
While @Dan has been forthcoming with some items, where it really matters to give people confidence in the estimates it has fallen short. Are the molds completed and tooling ordered? Is testing on the electrical components complete? Shifting a date arbitrarily by 6 months does nothing other than add 6 months more to the schedule.
That beta testers are still being recruited is a little scary unless they are just looking to improve the software end. Another thing that could get clarified to calm the masses. If there is anything that has not been handled well is the communication of progress, especially given the 15 month delay from original purchase for a lot of us.
I am anxiously awaiting my GF, and I hope that it does come by the end of the year. It will be a nice Christmas gift for myself.
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So the machines going to New York will be some of the newest off production, rather than the old workhorse units?
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Personal opinion: If you have regrets, get a refund. if you have questions, ask (nicely…please). If you want to learn, grow, have fun, laugh, and find the answers to a vast majority of your questions then read the forum threads. Hell, you might just find yourself commenting and meeting people with similar interests. If that makes me a “kool-aid drinker” then, CHEERS! BOTTOMS UP!. I have learned so much from these great people and had so much fun. Can’t wait to meet a few of you at the Maker Faire in Seattle!
Everyone on the Glowforge team has been through difficult start-ups, and has pulled off amazing things. I may be delusional, but not only do I believe I will get the laser cutting unit of my dreams, but I will be blown away by how great it is and how it will improve even more as we progress!
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This ^^:thumbsup:
Optimism! Now pass me that Kool aid… 
Now, in defence of the skeptics, I’m sure if I had experienced disappointment or financial loss due to being taken advantage of to a much greater magnitude than I have been, I’m sure I too would maintain an elevated suspicion.
But there is a difference between skepticism and pessimism, the latter being nothing more than being prematurely disappointed in the future.
“it is not such a shame that we die, the real shame is what dies within us while we live”.
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The material was there. Could it have been stated in a better way? In a better location on the site? Sure. But it was available.
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10 likes for this! 
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@Jdodds, I’m so terribly sorry we let you down. We failed to ship on time this June. It’s something I think about all the time, and something that motivates us every day. Falling short on our commitment to thousands of people who trusted us does not sit lightly.
I humbly apologize. I did not mean for even the smallest note of condescension.
Despite my personal limitations, I’m lucky enough to now be surrounded by a team that can and regularly does work magic. Any failures are on me; they’ve been, and continue to be, nothing short of astonishing.
Please refrain from insulting others here.
We haven’t decided yet. Anything we show in public gets documented very closely by those who admire and are “inspired” by our work, so we tend to err on the side of showing older hardware, even when newer hardware is available.
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Understandable.
If at all possible, can you bring along a plastic piece with the passthrough cut out removed? Even if only available behind the table on request, I just really want to poke my fingers in the hole and get a better sense of the opening 
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Said the Bishop to the actress! (Sorry, but I couldn’t resist that.)
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I believe a lot of these articles that have been written by people who apparently did not give due diligence to the facts are a big reason for the confusion on the December shipping date of beta units. It has bothered me from the beginning how much false info has been in these articles. I ordered on October 22nd instead of earlier because I read and reread everything the company (not others) had to say. And I understood our units would be coming in the 2nd quarter of 2016. The info was there to find and not in the small print. They have only had the one delay (granted a big one) from this June to December and been very open and generous with us. I am grateful that giving us a quality product is top priority for them and not rushing garbage out the door that will need to be recalled in 6 months. Give them and us a break. :o)
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Back in September that was not the case. Let me show you the waybackmachine URL from September 24th
https://web.archive.org/web/20150924190511/https://glowforge.com/order/
So there is NOTHING in the FAQ in September that would indicate that December would be beta units.True that it does mention ramp-up, but its not this “it was always beta! and you didn’t do your due diligence to find that out”.
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When looking into buying the Glowforge I did not have access to the forum or the purchase page. You can pull up any number of pages in and of themselves to prove just about anything you want, but the fact is many of us understood from the company ads and yotube videos what they meant by first units to ship in Dec. and the rest of production to ramp up and roll out in the first two quarters of 2016. My whole point was that many of the media articles were giving misinformation that has led to alot of frustration from individuals who trusted that their reporting was accurate. (Which it was not)
And I did not say that you did not do your due diligence, I said the writers of the Media articles should have done their due diligence. I don’t want to fight with you but I am entitled to my opinion and this is it.
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Sure. Everyone has an opinion, and you are entitled to yours. Its not about pulling anything to prove a point. Its pulling the facts that would be relevant to when the item would ship. I for one look at it and say that it was misleading, and that there have been two delays effectively.
Nothing at the time of order would indicate that there was anything but ramp-up of production to be done. As we know now, there was plenty of development still to be done, and that was not disclosed.
Its not fighting - its about perception and fact. Like everything else, you can read a statement and take two different opinions on it. The same way you are convinced there has only been one delayed, I see two - Others see it my way, others see it yours. I think the only thing I think we can agree on is that there could have been a lot better communication early on to dispel these misconceptions.
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Regardless of who can prove what, what difference does it really make now? It makes no difference one way or the other what the situation was in October of 2015. All that matters is what the situation is right now.
All that you are doing is re-hashing the same issues that have been brought up over and over and over again, and what good does it do? It doesn’t improve your situation or anyone else’s.
It’s been said.
Everyone knows it, regardless of whether they agree with it or not, so drop it.
Rehashing it over and over again is just annoying.
@dan must feel like Peter Gibbons right now:
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I think you may have just described optimism and pessimism… Personally I remain optimistic - makes the wait more worthwhile! (You can’t change the past but you can ruin the present by worrying about the future). Just my two cents !
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Dan - just curious if Proofgrade (initially) is just going to consist of various lumber/woods. That is, are there any plans to include other materials such as acrylics ( not sure how differently they’d laser from one to another - besides cast of extruded and thickness), leather, laminates or “pre-shapes” like plaques, etc. ( Similar to Laserbits). Again, just curious - more concerned with the hardware getting completed at the moment…
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No announcements yet of what we have planned, but we’re looking at more than just wood - woods are just the intersection of “most requested” and “most challenging to do really well”.
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