Bre Pettis (investor of Glowforge) buys Other Machine Co

Everything Else
41

The OS customers who feel that way might be better served by taking the refund before the units ship, and buying a locally sourced laser.

(I’m going to pay them the ultimate compliment of assuming that they are smart enough to make that decision for themselves.)

aaaand …I’m going to have to disagree with this statement.

Glowforge has been extremely up front about everything that this laser will and will not do. They have shown us every wart and hiccup along the way. (Painful as it must have been.)

A few folks seem to have had a hard time hearing it though, because it doesn’t match what their vision of the machine was supposed to be over a year and a half ago.

It might be time for everyone to stop and think for a bit. The units are shipping. We know what they can and can’t do. Make a decision now, whether to buy the machine that actually is, based on the current information we have. Or get your money back and go find that laser of your dreams.

The time for changing our minds about accepting one of these things is rapidly drawing to a close. The shipping notice is the last chance we get to take the refund. Once they ship it, it’s ours.

Anybody who hangs in for the machine has made a decision that they want it. If you’re not going to be happy with it when you get it, then don’t do it. It’s really as simple as that.

My take on it…(and please feel free to skip the rest…it’s probably going to be deadly dull)…

I see the potential for many little updates and upgrades to make life easier for designers down the road, but I understand that it’s going to be a while before they happen, so if that’s acceptable, it might be worth sticking it out.

This first machine was marketed to beginners, and those completely unfamiliar with lasers.

It works extremely well for that. I can attest. :smile:

And I believe it already has the ability to do most of the things the bigger, much more expensive machines do, but at the cost of a little more knowledge and effort on the part of the user. That can be improved on, but it needs to get shipped out to the target market first…beginners. Otherwise, there is no Glowforge to improve upon.

The technically savvy folk who spend so much time giving feedback to Glowforge here on the forum are incredibly important for the future development of these improvements, but Glowforge needs time to get the first unit out the door, as they designed it, not as we want it to be. That time will come later. And that machine will be better than this one, if it’s allowed to happen. We just need to give them a little breathing room.

Last thing, I promise…I was really happy to read @dan’s comment that the founders and investors have had “the discussion”, because that was the one thing I’ve been a bit uncertain about… many Startup companies do plan to sell out shortly after launch, and that can crumble a company pretty quickly.

Again, more information than he needed to share with us as customers. (But appreciated.)

So anyway, now I really am looking forward to the next phase… I hope everyone decides to hang in there for the ride. :grin:

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42

Drop the :microphone:. @Jules has totally knocked this one out. I, too, am in it for the long haul. Looking where @dan has and hasn’t disclosed information, I’d say they releases, both good and bad, have been extremely communicative, and places where disclosure is lacking, they are most likely VERY important legal and business reasons to hold back. Just one example, because Jules said all the important stuff.

Replacement laser tubes. The company will be selling replacements for user replacement if the user doesn’t want to ship the laser back. The disclosure as made indicated that the fix and replacement involved several patents. Since there are people and companies that do try to sneak in and steal patent information for themselves and licensing prior to the patents’ issuance, it would be a disservice to the customers for @dan to disclose specifics before that is completed. I can totally imagine a company swooping in, stealing the :glowforge: design before the patent process is completed, then rigging it to force :glowforge: to license their own invention. Stuff like this has happened frequently in patent history, and it would be poor protection of us if dan revealed too much and allowed that to happen.

So I believe that all the reveals (the good, bad, and ugly) as well as the undisclosed information is overall done for the benefit of the customers. Remember that we are the only way that :glowforge: succeeds, and @dan wants all of us to be successful and happy with our lasers, above all else.

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43

Not 100% in agreement here. Not that he is not greatly improved vs. earlier in the process, but for this specific issue, (skipping patentable info) is this extremely, moderately, not very, not at all hard. As in do I have to have built my own 3D printer/CNC mill from parts? From a premade kit? just be a reasonably technical person capable of changing spark plugs or oil in a lawnmower or my mom?

That involves no technical info, and can give some reassurance to folks based on their experience level that they can/t do this. And is it hard (if so) due to it being a really long involved process (alignment, etc) or hard because you have to not kill yourself on a HV supply.

It’s like changing RAM on the mac SE-style models wasn’t hard, you just had to know how to safely be around a very high voltage CRT and how to discharge it prior to working, but way beyond most people… After that they were just SIMM slots.

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44

There’s what you know,
what you don’t know,
and then there’s what you know you don’t know.

It’s the part you don’t know what you (should) know that kills you.

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45

By the way, I speak from experience, since I still have a SE cracking kit on my shelf (more for amusement - the HV discharge tool long ago disintegrated) - Note those are the original 256K SIMMS

866×1154 148 KB

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46

OMG… I completely forgot about the case cracker! I used to work on those as well. I never ever did find another use for the Torx wrench that long. I lost those tools years ago in countless moves.

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47

Somehow it’s survived 11 moves

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48

As far as this goes…I firmly believe that if they didn’t already have a method in mind for us to safely change those out, they would never have capitulated to the wailing masses who were fussing about the extra expense to ship it round trip to have them change it out for us.

It really goes against character for them to try to fry us. ROFL! :smile:

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49

I think more likely you’d see a new machine. that would use the GF interface.

to me that would make the most sense. as I can’t see anyway the gantry in a GF would sustain the side pressure from cutting anything using a rotating tool.

50

I am not sure there is a disconnect between thinking GF has NOT been upfront with the communications, and somehow the only logical conclusion is that you should cancel - to me that is a false choice.

I agree with @palmercr - the communications have been anything but upfront and clear. As an example, an update with nothing wrong where 2 weeks later you have another 6 month delay? To think that the communications have been great to me assume that if this soap opera had to be re-done, you’d be fine with how it played out.

As customers, we should hold GF accountable to their promises, and what sold us on the product almost 2 years ago to purchase it. Just because one challenges, or want to know where some of the original features are (like variable focus), doesn’t mean you aren’t excited about getting what you were sold.

There are some of us that are more skeptical than others, but we all want an awesome laser, and I do know the GF team is working hard to deliver that to us.

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51

The ability to create safety steps and ability for people to execute them are not directly related in any manner. There will always be people capable of doing it safely, otherwise the units could never have been built in the first place.

When was the last time you saw “NO USER SERVICEABLE PARTS” (or “NOT USER SERVICEABLE”) written on anything?

52

this is hugely insulting, there’s a lot more into it than a few bucks in shipping.

srsly tho very yes

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53

Yes but they need to know what is involved in the change before making that decision. Do they need to make HV connections to the tube or is there a quick connect? Do they simply swap pipes around or do they need to drain down and refill? Does it need alignment like other lasers?

No they have not. On this feature Dan refused to say if alignment is needed. I can see no reason for not giving a yes or no answer to that. It doesn’t divulge any patent info and since production units are “shipping” it’s a bit late to have secrets.

Really? Has a single unit shipped this week?

It seems the people who have letters got that info but it isn’t public, which is odd when production units are “shipping”. Why is it secret what they do?

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54

If there’s patentable technology in the Glowforge that hasn’t had an application filed yet, somebody is asleep at the switch. It’s way to late in the game to be doing that.

It’s pretty clear at this point that “We’re shipping now!” is most generously referred to as an alternative fact. If units actually were shipping, we’d hear about people getting their tracking numbers, and we’d be seeing photos of stacks of boxes ready for shipping labels. We haven’t. Glowforge wanted to take one piece of FSL FUD off the playing field for Maker Faire. I think there’s probably a reason that the email went to so few people, and gave a 6-week window for delivery. If Glowforge can’t get the small handful of units out to people who’ve already received the email (maybe 30-40?) in the next few weeks, then I think there’s another delay coming.

And, as always, I sincerely hope I’m wrong!

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55

Dan: "Ship some, now."
Warehouse: "We’ve shipped some now!"
Marketing: “We’re shipping now!”

See the difference?

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56

About six weeks it would seem.

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57

I think it’s more likely:
Warehouse: OK, we’ll start to get ready to assemble some units that can be shipped.
Glowforge: “Now shipping!”

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58

My phone, toaster, microwave, coffee maker, printer, etc.

59

I’ve seen patents snatched mid-filing. I’d consider :glowforge: in the right to withhold specifics on that even with units shipping. It’s going to be finished long before the first tube fails off warranty. And I don’t think any customer is going to be tearing down their freshly shipped :glowforge: to reverse engineer that in the meantime.

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60

I think there are probably several… FSL, Epilog, Trotec, Voccell…

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