Class action lawsuit

i’ve seen and had my own issues with support being less than optimal. we shouldn’t blindly defend GF. i think the back end of their support model “loses” tickets sometimes. they can be quick to respond via email, then suddenly support goes dark for a bit on your ticket. i’ve always thought support was GF’s achilles heel.

and, to be fair, i think some of that issue comes down to them marketing the machine as “simple and easy.” and, maybe compared to other laser cutters, the GFUI is fairly straightforward, DESIGNING for laser cutting isn’t any simpler on the GF than any other machine. and i suspect quite a bit of their support time is holding peoples’ hands or telling them, “that’s how it’s supposed to work when you do that.”

but, as annoying as alla that is, it’s not anything that’s going to convince a lawyer that there’s any money in a class action lawsuit for them.


That was the point that they were trying to make, though some is lost in translation. I have been an artist all my life even as a hobby when doing something else for money. As for technical skills in electrical engineering I am as skilled as your average fisherman, so yes Designing is still a necessary skill, but but my Glowforge was doing nice stuff in the first week and my 3d printer still has not made the first thing in many years,


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: its funny because its true!

So many folks that have to answer calls for a living should be honorary therapists :slight_smile:


I had my last water heater die while on warranty. Got a brand new one with the remaining warranty from the old one. Standard procedure.


Any updates, @katierumery524 ?


As per my own (biased) experience, there are two types of GF users:

  1. those “older users” that bought their machines in the early days, at a very decent price, when GF was still an innovative and responsive company. They got the best out of the deal. They have to talk with real ppl that were developing the machine. They got replacement and upgrades for little money or for free. They got the new machines, they got the attention, they got the real deal, their money has already paid off. I guess this is why they still feel grateful to GF.

  2. the “new” users, we that bought an expensive laser cutter. We expect a product that performs, free of defects, or at least, with not recurrent ones. Especially for those who bought the PRO. Even more for those of us that already have another laser cutter, and we know it is possible.

My experience as 2-year owner has been bad. Not with the ppl, the support team and the community are great. However, when my very first machine arrived defective, and the replacement was an old machine with the CO2 cable charred, only to get another that failed, I have to say that the quality control is bad.

Even worst. The third machine got the lid detached (a well known issue), so I’m now on my fourth machine in 2 years. I “only” had to pay $1,765 more. I know machines aged, and I would be happy to pay a decent price for a lid replacement, but to replace the whole machine is just ridiculous. Their business model deviated to a kind of abusive one, as they know you can’t do much but to pay. I got my “new refurbished” today. I can tell the machine is not new.

[EDIT] btw, I’m selling my new-refurbished GF PRO one, still on warranty, for $3,500 (obo): Selling new-refurbished Glowforge PRO, on warranty - Texas

As per a class action lawsuit? well, I bet if a lawyer owns a GF, and get to replace several units, and pay around an extra half more for getting the machine fixed, he/she/them would find a way to file one, no doubt in my mind about it. :rofl: :joy: :rofl:

You need to buy a Formlabs 3, they cost way less than the GF, and they perform very well. I have had only about four failed prints in about 5 years, and never had to return the machine to the factory for repairs :heart_eyes:.

Plus, a Formlabs IS a real Laser 3D printer, not like the GF that IS a laser cutter, but identifies herself as a 3D laser printer :rofl: :joy: :sweat_smile:

Your assumptions about “older users” is not accurate and I wonder about the source of that information. I was part of the presale, purchasing in 2015 and receiving my machine in 2017. I did not talk to real people that were developing the machine. I did not get a replacement or upgrade for little money of for free. Perhaps there have been some perks, but Glowforge had my money for two years before I had a machine, so that is something that newer users didn’t experience.

Lawyers read the warranty. Lawyers wrote the warranty. You might think you know what a disgruntled lawyer owner would do, but I think you are wrong.

I am glad you are satisfied with your Formlabs IS.


Mi source is this forum.

Yeah, maybe then there are more categories of users, not only two. I have read tons of posts and I’ve seen some posts of ppl that got replacements of old units with new ones, and upgrades for free.

BTW, I’m selling my brand new “new-refurbished” GF Pro that received today, for only $3,500, it is still in the 90 days warranty period, more than 50% discount of list price!

Yeah, well, I think I’m right. You can look for what disgruntled lawyer’s lawsuits have filed in the past, and you may change your opinion.

But granted I could be wrong. Opposed to facts, opinions can be right, wrong or in between. That’s the fun of discussing.

I am! I love my Formlabs SSL 3D printer.

Nothing to do with a laser cuter btw. Just sharing with @rbtdanforth my experience as a satisfied 3D printer user, since he mentioned that his 3D printer doesn’t work very well. Or at least that’s what I understood.

Links? Because I’m one of the crowdfunders too, and what @dklgood says is correct.

We did have user support via this forum (as an alternative to email) for a while, but that was available to everyone, not just us. We didn’t get to talk to any developers. We got the same software upgrades everyone else gets, and we only got free replacements during our warranty period or when damage occurred while using PG materials.

In short: Your information is wrong.


the primary advantage the original crowdfunders have is that we got more interaction with Dan and the team before the actual machine was released in the wild. he was more active on the forum back then. well, that and the initial cost, but we “lent” that money for 2+ years for that privilege, so it’s not quite as amazing as it seems. and we did a lot of the initial testing, when there were no real settings or user groups sharing things.


I don’t know about crowfounders in particular. I’m talking about early users in general, and I believe they had a better deal than new owners. Just a few examples below:

Older users had the chance to interact with GF ppl, not generic emails that always change the name. rbtdanforth mentions that he had Zoom interactions in this very post, above. Alas, you guys could interact with Dan Shapiro, the CEO (Watch Brad Feld & Dan Shapiro print something).

Or when ppl from GF picked up issues posted in the forum?, as Rita did in this post? (Another Print load error).

As per replacement and upgrades for little money or free, as I understand, they have a discounted price for Premium access. Isn’t that correct?

Also, if you got an early basic machine for $1,995, that worked great for three years (some even 5?) then you need to replace the tube, for only $499 you will get a refurbished Plus as the basic is discontinued. That is a great deal!

Not saying it is unfair; old users made an early bet, GF was a new company, and the risks were high.

My conclusions could be biased, and may be wrong, but my info is not.

In the end, I’m just trying to make sense of why it seems to be two types of users in the forum: those super happy and loyal to GF (they all seem to be always the same GF veterans). On the other hand, those (like me) have had several repeated issues with the machine.

It has been a rollercoaster; while it works, I’m happy with GF, but that lasts just a few months, then it breaks, I need a replacement, and the cycle starts again. 4 machines in 2 years is, in my book, too much for such an expensive machine.

BTW, all refurbished machines I have gotten are old machines. I have NEVER had a new machine. An old user certainly got a new machine, and if it lasted 3 or 5 years with no issue, it was of better quality than all I have gotten. That is totally anecdotal, but I understand they changed manufacturing companies (as per old posts in the forum), which may have affected the quality. I don’t know what it is, but I know my machines have been unreliable. I know @Deleted did great work documenting issues; that’s how I found my issues were already known.

Yeah, totally get it!

I’m not saying it is unfair. It was a bet and a risk you took. You deserve to have whatever perks you guys got. Nothing against that; all the opposite, you allowed the machine to become what it is. The company owes you a lot.

I may have phrased it as if I’m against the Glowforge Orignal Gangsters (ha), but I’m not. I’m grateful as (most) OGs have come to help me when I need help and encouragement.

As mentioned in a post above, I’m trying to make sense of some users’ high loyalty and happiness with GF. I believe the “loyal users” correlate to the time they jumped into GF. My theory could be wrong, but that’s what I believe so far.

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Not trying to pick a fight here, but in this post you are talking about how unreliable you think Glowforges are, and in another post you want nearly $3500 for a machine with a 90 day warranty. You seem to be sabotaging yourself.


I’m sorry you’ve had unreliable machines, that stinks.

In general my machines have been very durable and performed really well. I’ve had a maintenance issue or two but I’ve found the machine to be a solid value to me.

That’s why I’m happy with my Glowforge. It works well and I like the community.

I don’t know how I’d react if I had one support failure after another, I’d probably be upset just like you are… but it’s gone well, so I’m not.


I know humans are full of contradictions. And it happens that I’m very, very human :sweat_smile:

See, I cannot hide, in good conscience, what I think of GF reliability. I know, I’m a bad salesman!

However, if there is anyone who, regardless of what I believe about GF and still wants to buy them, that one person most probably is in this forum because here there are people that have had very different experiences than mine.

Maybe one lucky owner of an original Glowforge basic that has been working flawlessly for three or maybe five years and wants to upgrade to a Glowforge PRO before their machine dies? Or maybe someone who wants to add a new-refurbished PRO to their current Glowforge farm?

Regarding price, well, Glowforge sells the refurbished at $6,799. They bought my working one (it only has the lid detached!), for $5,344. Just see the invoice I paid. I’m posting it below. So, it is not true that it cost me less than $3,500.

As per warranty, Glowforge’s warranty for this new-refurbished is 90 days.

So, I’m offering the exact same machine glowforge sold me and I received today, but for less than half the price, that is a heck of a deal!, and I believe an informed buyer would appreciate it.

Of course, you don’t think that way, and that is all right. I bet some one there will see it as a good opportuinity to upgrade.

However, if there is not a buyer, well, I won’t stress too much because the GF will probably fail within 90 days, and I’ll get another new-refurbished, and so, and so, at infinitum, until eventually one doesn’t fail, or someone buys it :rofl: :joy: :rofl:.

Another possibility is to use it to experiment with hacks on it. We’ll see what happens.

PS. sorry to repeat “new-refurbished” over and over, but I have fun writing it, that’s just whimsical!.

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Thanks, man!

You have no idea how envious I am of every user who has had no issues at all with their Glowforge.

I’m genuinely curious: why is there such a disparity in experiences? What are the odds that several users receive repeatedly faulty machines? (Don’t make me post the links; I know you’ve read those posts).

Actually, I know how to estimate those odds. Some owners have received more than four faulty units! Let me work it out and get back to you. :slight_smile:

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I think you’re audience here is not the audience you are seeking. I think the audience you are seeking may be more easily found on social media platforms maybe?

I’m sorry you are unhappy. I hope you find what makes you happy. (I mean that sincerely, with zero sarcasm. It sucks when you invest in something you aren’t happy with.) Good luck!


Let's start estimating the probability of a single user receiving repeated faulted machines; we need to define some parameters and assumptions:


  • Probability of a Faulted Machine (Pf): The chance that any given machine is faulty.
  • Number of Replacements (n): How many times you've received a replacement, including the original purchase. In this case, it's 4 (original + 3 replacements).

Using the binomial probability formula, the probability of receiving k faulted machines out of n total machines is:

P(X=k) = (n choose k) × Pfk × (1-Pf)n-k

However, in my case, I've received faulty machines every single time, so k = n. Thus, the formula becomes:

P(X=n) = Pfn

If we knew the actual probability Pf (i.e., the fraction of machines that are faulty), we could calculate this directly. Lets assume a high number, say 10% of all machines are faulty (Pf=0.10), and I've received 4 defective machines in a row:

P(X=4) = 0.104 = 0.0001 = 0.01%

This means there's a 0.01% chance of receiving 4 defective machines in a row if 10% of all machines are faulty.

However, there's a nuance: The chance of several users experiencing the same repeated issues suggests that the probability isn't just random bad luck. If multiple users are consistently receiving faulty units, Pf might be higher than estimated, there could be systemic issues in certain batches, or the way the refurbished units are handled might be problematic.

To thoroughly assess the situation, we can estimate now the case for multiple users

New definition:

  • j: Number of users experiencing the repeated fault.


Four users (j=4) each receiving four faulty machines in a row (n=4).


All users get machines from the same pool of refurbished machines, and the probability of getting a faulty machine remains constant across all picks.


The probability that a single user gets four faulty machines in a row is:

P1 = Pf4

The probability that four users each get four faulty machines in a row is the fourth power of P1:

Pk = (Pf4)4 = Pf16

Now, let's solve for Pf in the equation Pk = Pf16 given a specific Pk.

For simplicity, let's use the probability we got for one single user in the initial calculations above, Pk = 0.0001 (0.01% chance that all four users would get four faulty machines in a row). Then,

0.0001 = Pf16

To solve for Pf, take the 16th root of both sides:

Pf = 0.00011/16

Calculating this value, Pf ≈ 0.38 or 38%.

This means that for there to be a 0.01% chance of four users each receiving four faulty machines consecutively from the pool, approximately 38% of the refurbished machines in that pool would need to be faulty, that this a lot!

Of course, we need to keep in mind that this is a simplified model and the actual probability can be influenced by various factors. However, this gives a basic understanding of how high the faulty rate needs to be, in order to observe such a number of repeated faulty machines by several users under the defined assumptions.


Thank you, @trually. I genuinely value your insight. At times, I feel like I’m seeking a form of group therapy here. :joy:

I have no intention of broadly criticizing Glowforge on social media or creating negative content about them on platforms like YouTube, FB or IG. My hope was to express my feelings and frustrations in a community where others can truly empathize — those who understand the emotional and financial investment of purchasing such a machine, dedicating time, building expectations, and then facing disappointment.

It becomes even more challenging when I come across comments that seem to dismiss the very real frustrations that some of us face. Regardless of the percentage of users experiencing issues (and I’ve tried to estimate this), the fact remains: there are owners out there who’ve had multiple issues. Their experiences and feelings are valid. Fortunately, these kinds of comments are not the rule but the exception.