Oh, that flat cable gave me grief. when the lid was unglued, it came out faulty. I had to trace the tracks to find what was wrong. I would’ve appreciated a different placement of the cable or a different type of cable, but hey, that is a very minor issue that I cannot complain about. At least mine had a large cable.
I’m curious, could you help me figuring out to know if my machine has an older design for the exhaust?
It is very possible that the machines actually got worst after a certain change in the design. It could even be in the shipping. I think my first was delivered by Fedex, the last one arrived by UPS. Maybe it is random? I don’t know.
Circumstantial and no data, but maybe that’s why there are people with 5 years old machines still working fine? it could be just pure luck to get a longevous unit tho.
Regarding the factors in the model, the higher order of events chained is dominant over the other factors. Even forgetting the number “38%”, the important thing here is that, given that chained events, in more than one owner, that strongly signals that the pool they are using for sending refurbished machines has a higher percentage of defective machines.
To your point about machines changing with time, it is possible that the problem of a high percentage of defective refurbished machines lasted for a period of time, say, 18 months, which is about the time I have had the experiences. Who knows? If the last machine broke tomorrow, I will know that was not the case
I was just answering to @rbtdanforth that it is possible that it was just a period of time when things were not going well with GF support/refurbished machines.
For the last refurbished machine process that happened during the last two weeks, I got answer the same day I posted. And that was over the weekend! Awesome.
I posted before the charred cable I got on my first new refurbished one, but I failed to include a picture of the electric arc that created the burn. Let me do it now.
This is a high-voltage cable needed to fire the CO2 tube. The arch was on all the time while the GF was operating. That was very dangerous.
I don’t know how the refurbishing company didn’t catch it., it was obvious. Not only the cable, and the highly illuminated and noisy arch, but also tons of burned insulation material in the floor.
The older exhaust had a hex structure like a bee hive, the newer one is spirals that are less resistant to airflow.
There was a time during covid, that every manufacturing company had a lot of issues. Parts come from all over and each of those manufacturers also need parts and materials. Pre-covid inspectors hired by the final company (glowforge in this case, but almost everyone) would randomly drop in and inspect their QC. During covid the manufacturers had to make it possible that anyone came to work at all, so I think that was a loss of top-level QC. I also suspect that the situation caused a lot of changing sources, making their own problems.
That is also why there is a 90-day warranty so if you start getting flashes from the high-voltage cable it should go back in the box to be replaced at no cost to you, and the guy at the shop that is supposed to inspect the machine gets a black mark.
That is the explanation of the “bathtub effect” (terrible name!). It is not the same as buying a used machine unless you sent it into the shop to replace any parts with detectable wear while ignoring the place where the cat chewed on a corner.
But my original point was, that there are many places where something can go wrong and if the owner does not know about recalibration for example they can go through several machines sent back with absolutely nothing wrong with them. And then complain very loudly that all the machines were junk.
Of course, users that break their machines over and over and over and then complain are not considered.
By the way, support told me I should not re-calibrate the laser, but I have to send it back for a new-refurbished one. I don’t see why, recalibrating is not a big deal that you need to ship an 80lbs machine, with all the perils involved.
I had been able to service my own (brand new) machine, and most probably I still had it working fine after two years. But that is a different thread.
That is a large part of your calculations, and also a large portion of complainers in social media that are never at fault for anything according to them. My experiences with magnets has given me considerable insight into that issue. Once I could see the issue caused by magnetic fields suddenly I could not believe I had not seen it before.
I don’t know much about the specifics of your particular situation but a $5k discount on a refurb is better than another brand that is new and as likely you will have similar issues. You say that you have skills to inspect the machine, then I would inspect the new (to you) machine very carefully. And document everything.
The idea of the Glowforge originally was recognizing that being a really creative artist and highly skilled engineer and computer expert was not Venn diagram with a lot of overlap, so it was built so that a person more capable in artistic design could put the machine up and get it working in a day without all the complex adjusting, and with cloud computing not need a sizable bit of computation in every machine. The downside of this is that by eliminating the need to repair a part they also eliminated the ability to repair that part by the average user. So where you might take it to the local shop you will have to send it to the central repair facility. I would have suggested making it more modular, thus easing shipping and to the point possible they have done so. You can get parts like the printer head that was not available in the early years as an example. You could send your machine in and after a few months get that same machine back repaired. Sending back a different machine immediately for the cost of repair with a much more detailed inspection looking for possible future issues seems a better option.
Well, my fourth machine, a two days old refurbished, is failing. It stops in the middle of a job to cool down. Every single time it exceeds 5-8 mins.
I live in Texas and it is hot, but all the third previous machines never had this problem. They were faulty, but never. overheated. So, I don’t think it is the weather, but the machine.
Maybe the coolant is low? Or maybe the thermo electric cooler is damaged?
More important, Is it a fifth refurbished machine in my future?
If that is the case, then this is game is becoming just ridiculous.
5K discount out of 7K already paid, plus extra $1.78, total aroun $9K for a machine that, in two years, have been replaced 4 times, and all seems to indicate it’s going to be a fifth time. Not good
I have another laser cutter that is around twelve years old. This is a also a hobbyist machine, same as GF. So I have a baseline.
In those years, I have had only two issues, and I fixed by recalibrating the laser (took around 30 mins), and then have to replace the CO2 tube, (costs round $300). While I don’t like it needs an external compressor and a water reservoir with a water pump, I love it does what it is supposed to do.
Honestly, I don’t think I could get a worst experience than having to replace 4 (possible 5) machines in a row.
I certainly have inspected all of the machines received. It backfired:
When I got the GF brand new, I realized it was not cutting through around the third job. Then, it took me around 20 or 30 more cuts, very small each one, like 5 secs each, to troubleshoot and diagnostic the issue. It was misalignment on the laser, that prevented it to hit the window are in the head once the X axis were beyond half travel.
I documented everything, with pictures and videos, and sent it to technical support. They agreed with the diagnostic and offered a refurbished GF. The conversation was like this (over email):
I said I wanted a new one.
They said no. The only option was a used machine.
I said I want to return it then. and get a refund, even a partial one.
They said I couldn’t return it because I had more jobs than the allowed for it to be returned (I think their policy is 30).
I said the jobs where very small, seconds and they could see that in the log. Of course, to no avail.
This is how I got an (almost $7K) machine, 4 weeks old, replaced for a series of used, faulty machines.
BTW, I was told in this forum that if I was so unhappy with the GF, I should sell it, that the GF are sold at a higher price used than new.
In paper, getting refurbished ones is a very valid option. Not the one I like, but still, a valid option and that is the company’s prerogative.
That didn’t work in my case (and for a few others).
If only I hadn’t gotten a series of non-faulty machine (paying almost extra $2K in the process), I would’ve not been complaining.
80 lbs. are what UPS told me was the weight three days ago, when I went to pick it up. But it could be 50 lbs, and they got it wrong. Now I’m curious, I’ll weight it and report back.
Probably is more by the time all the packing stuff and extra stuff is inside the box. I’m almost positive though that in the original ad for the Glowforge, it weighed 55lbs.
I was optimistic, the box is just too big to be put in my little scale. All I have is the UPS shipment details. I guess it should be around that weight. My point was that managing the GF once boxed is a pain in the back, literally. The first time I had to deliver to UPS it didn’t complain. But by the fourth machine, it is just fun.
FWIW, the coolant repository came almost empty. I didn’t see any sign of leaks when I inspected it after unboxing, so, I my guess is that some technician forgot to fill the tank.
The pump gets super-hot immediately, as any pump running without fluid. I hope it is not already damaged. I will see what support has to say about it.
PS. I’ve realized that I hijacked the OP’s post to vent my personal grievances
The question is not the previous machines or even the present one but the next one. There have been a lot of machines where the aim of the machine is thrown off so it cuts on the left but eats a hole in the head on the right. This is almost universally a case of shipping violence and the reason for the word fragile on the label. Any insurance etc due is to the sender and not the receiver. These folks should be held accountable in shipping in all sorts of ways, but looking at the attitude taken, they are apparently not.
So you are (and I was) sitting with a dead machine. The question starts at that point $1800 for a refurb or ~$4000 for another brand that may have similar issues and does not have many of the benefits. Maybe someone (like @deleated)would buy your dead machine for parts. Previous money spent counts for nothing unless like material you can sell some of that at a discount. Any CO2 laser is a lot more fragile than a table saw and the universe treats all of them that way.
That is really the price of repair. And what you would be paying if you returned your original machine and got the same one back. The difference is waiting months for the original or weeks for a different original.
Exactly! but if you know that shipping is the Achilles heel, then making shipping back and forward the only way to service, is kind of problematic, to say the less.
Nope, it is worst: I already paid the extra ~$1,800. I picked up it from UPS warehouse past Friday. That is the “new” one that is not working, it came with almost no coolant, so the pump is hot and it stops firing the CO2 (that is my diagnostic).
I asked technical support and while they are asking for the usual protocol steps, I feel that I’m approaching to get a another refurbished, the fifth one out of (if that happens), six (1 new, and four refurbished). The only “advantage” is that this is one that will not cost extra. sigh.
