@Jules Not to be a huge pain in the butt, but is there anyway you (or any other pre-releaser) could take a photo of the laser assembly? As I understand it you all aren’t under any NDA’s.
That might allow people to glean a but more info on why the decision was made (assuming no guidance comes from Dan, which hasn’t come in the past due to lawyers)
If I might offer a suggestion – one which may not be popular with some folks, but still could offer a different solution. When I bought my Makerbot Replicator 2, I could talk to support and make the repairs myself (new wiring harness, new motherboard, stepper motor switches, print head etc.). When they went to their new design of machine and I got a Z18 (a bit more expensive than my GF Pro with Filter) which, except for the print head, requires a tech to access, let alone repair, I got a subscription to their MakerCare service.
This service covers a variety of repairs and replacements and includes free shipping.
Just an idea…
2 years, you might want to be clear if that is “time while sitting in a box” or “time estimated with heavy/typical use”. Like, will the tube leak and decompress or something over 2 years? Or… as a casual hobbiest, can I rely on this thing for the next 10-20 years. 
Tube replacement… Please just let us do it. Make it complicated + safe, and I’ll sign a safety waver saying I wont sue you. This is pretty bad to force an expensive shipment and downtime on us. Great to have the option to let you fix it. But let the handy people do their thing and ignore warrenty and rules and stuff. Big suck here. Just give us the checkbox to check that says we’re not going to sue you.
So… can I order my own laser from an OEM manufacturer and just do it anyway? As long as I can, I’ll be HAPPY. Just enable that for us, please.
(I dont normally post anything, because I trust the h**l out of you folks to nail this thing, but here’s a reaction )
I do wish we had more answers to this issue before the units ship
I would hope today at Glowforge started with an emergency @staff meeting.
Sooo, warranty repairs will be the same way…
This simply wasn’t the right way to handle this and left so many unanswered questions that have caused panic and confusion in the community. I also noticed that this ‘little’ tidbit didn’t go out via email so there are still plenty of owners who may not know about the change.
This is a big deal and needs a better solution.
You know, it’d be kind of funny (not really) if Glowforge doesn’t let us buy tubes and the guy who built his own laser isn’t allowed to replace the tube in it.
Another supplemental idea: Does the current manufacturer of our machines have service locations in other parts of the world or other parts of the US that could be trained to provide tube servicing or other repairs?
Sure, I just think it’s an unnecessary dig.
Not exactly. $500 is what Dan says the cost of a new tube (not more than which generally means $499.99). Oversized/overweight boxes the size of the GF are UPS shippable but at a premium. Other lasers of the same size/weight can cost $350-500 for shipping (see ebay, Aliexpress, Trotex, ULS, etc). Times 2.
I have anecdotal evidence of the every couple of years - that’s what I see with my lasers now. Sometimes more but also sometimes less. There’s no real data from GF on that because they’ve said it’s 2000 hours for light use and also for heavy users.
And the save the box issue is huge - UPS won’t take responsibility for for inadequate packaging. Unless GF does, you better be able to prove that box you stashed in the shed or the basement or the attic is suitable to the task (i.e. same as when it got shipped the first time).
This is a big deal for a lot of people. In fact you may be in a fairly small minority based on the reactions to the poll in the other thread. Sliding it in under “miscellaneous” was disingenuous.
There may only be about 10,000 GFs in the world at launch. A year later when tubes start to die, maybe there will be twice that amount? Is that a big enough market to develop a clone tube? I dunno. Not gonna hold my breath for anyone to serve the GF market besides GF themselves.
This is a great question.
Calling it a “dig” suggests some sort of malice on my part toward people unhappy with the situation. I can share with you that I definitely had none. I see how you are interpreting it and hope my further clarification helps you understand what I was trying to communicate. If it hasn’t yet, I’ll say it one more way. When everybody has said what they want to say, I would like it if Glowforge told us more.
Though the tube replacement surprise could and should have been handled better, I have to believe that @dan and others are feverishly working on an alternate solution.
Even in the US, the shipping cost will almost DOUBLE the $500 estimate for tube replacement. As of today, UPS say the RETAIL cost to ship a Glowforge to Seattle from my area is $240, WITHOUT ADDITIONAL INSURANCE. Most of us are retail customers, so we will pay UPS the full retail price.
Cost aside, shipping a 55 lb piece of electronics for a repair is totally unacceptable.
Here is another idea that I don’t think anyone posted.
How about Glowforge offering a Lease program? They ship you out a new unit, you use it up, and send it back after two years, on their dime. Of course, you would pay more per month, but it would be cheaper than having to buy one outright. Also, Glowforge could receive those used Forges, and recondition/ replace the tubes and sell them as cheaper used units down the road.
The only feasible solution to this seems to be what GFs original plan was: user replacement. Anything involving shipping it back or sending out service engineers isn’t economically viable for either the user or GF.
I may or may not be in a minority. That doesn’t make what I said any less valid for my case even if it isn’t for the majority. As far as cost, we are working with only one sort of known number and that is the “under $500.” I am willing to wait until I have more complete and reliable information to start guessing at what this means. I have already said: [quote=“scatterbrains, post:174, topic:6369”]
Even as a U.S. customer, I don’t want increased costs of operating my laser. I’m pretty sure that there is not a single person that is absolutely 100% fine with it. It probably even deserves a bit of shouting about.
[/quote]
In other words, I hope that in the end the cost is minimized for customers. It is a good thing that people on the forum are saying a lot about it so Glowforge knows how important it is and they hopefully take action based on our feedback, but that doesn’t necessitate me cancelling even if it causes others to.
I wonder if the regional service centers could actually happen if they just used existing maker spaces. They are already open to the public and have competent staff on hand who could surely handle the replacement. They may already be getting a forge and GF could cut them a deal either way.
GF knows where buyers live and could identify existing maker spaces in a few key places to start. Who knows, maybe they could even resell the tubes in some way that removed GF from liability.
That’s not the only known number. We know round-trip shipping will be ~$500 as well. So the known number is ~$1,000 or for budgetary purposes $500/year. PLUS the (unknown) cost of the existing business you lose while it’s away, PLUS the (unknown) cost of potential lost NEW business while your unit is away, PLUS the cost (known to you) of your labor to prep, pack, unpack, prep your unit every 2 years.
Not to mention if labor is included in that $500. Before, the $500 only covered parts.
I wonder about how UPS or whatever shipping agent will handle “broken in transport” Used Glowforge claims… Like, would they reimburse you full price for a used machine that didn’t work too well in the first place, coming or going to a repair facility? I can see them saying they would only give you 200 bucks because the thing is used and smells like burnt up crap.
