I read many comments saying: “I’m okay with the delay”, and “we are getting a BETTER machine”.
My question is: What does that REALLY mean, better than what?? You haven’t even seen ONE machine in operation, or in existence for a couple of months, so what will the delayed product be better than?
If we were getting some consistent updates on how the features or lasered results were coming out along the way, then a delay/update with specific changes explained might be called, “a better product”.
I’m not trying to be negative here, I’m just a little confused about people’s comments. I’m an electronic engineer too, so maybe I’m a little more exact in what constitutes a BETTER product.
@dan, I appreciate your positive attitude and replies to customers’ situations, but forgive me if I say that that is “owning up to the delays”, and being a nice guy, but that is not the same as transparency with what exactly is going on with the product developments (save for the power-supply scenario). For example, why haven’t we seen more video’s on how the machine automatically stiches long designs, or how the pro-model’s doors operate, etc. We all trusted your company’s vision and plucked down $2000 to $4000, but after around six months, it would be nice to know what some of the details are, not just that “but, we are getting a better product”. Am I being unreasonable here?
Better could mean that now they have time waiting for the power source to be tested, they can dip into the idea hopper and possibly make additions to the software.
Since the product is not released yet, I can understand the non transparency…to protect their concept and design mostly.
There may be people lurking that try to copy and quickly put out a product that will most likely be subpar but steal the thunder from the Glowforge…if that makes sense…keep it underwraps until its how they want it…
@rpegg, Correct me if I’m wrong, but before the team received VC, and pre-order funds, it would make sense that they had a basic machine in operation (with basic laser-machine features, according to the initial marketing video)
One can only think, that after securing these funds (by Oct. 24th), the team started refining the parts’ designs, the parts list, the features of the machine, started sourcing the parts (and some vendors over-promise, I know). That could take months, and that is why I can sympathize with having to delay the product shipment.
I can understand all this, based on the engineering work I have done, but I still think that giving us some information on how well all the features are falling into place, would be soothing for the soul.
In spite of what I said earlier, I still have great expectations, excitement, and confidence in team @dan. for the following reasons:
The glowforge is reasonably priced, compared to the Epilog (for example), and others.
It promises a good set of features (auto curve compensation, cameras, 40/45W power, UI, etc.).
I like that @dan is present on the forum, and seems like a genuinely nice guy.
The fact that we are assured of a refund with no questions asked. I had ordered the pro (initially only offered with air filter), but when they made it possible to upgrade, I contacted support and asked if I could cancel the air filter option (I will set up outside ventilation), they refunded that portion of my cost without any hassles. for that I’m very appreciative.
I am as excited as all of you in this waiting game. Full of ideas and ambitious projects!!!
I haven’t done manufacture myself, just watched from the sidelines as various kickstarter and other startup types have learned lessons.
But the difference between a hand crafted prototype and a mass production ready part is pretty substantial. And if you are doing anything precision, then when you decide one part is “close enough” that puts a burden on all of the other parts.
So maintaining complete transparency requires that you teach everyone about this, and let them in on absolutely all of the minutia of every decision, or that you deal with absurd backlash at random points when people mis-translate your actions, or… you just don’t tell them things they honestly don’t need to know.
It is like when my 4 year old asks when something in the future will be. He doesn’t know how to tell time or read a calendar yet. So when I tell him “next month” it means NOTHING to him. Or when we are driving and he wants to know where we are going, but we have never been there before, so I have no possible way to tell him anything which will actually be meaningful. Sure… I can say “To a new makerspace in town that I am helping start” but that still leaves him with NO CLUE where we are going.
Same thing with updates here. If one part just never is getting worked out right, eventually you may decide to go back and re-design a dozen other parts to fit what you CAN accomplish with the problem piece. So suddenly numerous small components which were finalized are back to being re-designed. Someone with no idea what is going on may see this as “OMG! Half of their parts aren’t manufacture ready anymore! The company is falling apart!” instead of “Oh, that one assembly crew is taking too long or dealing with impossible constraints, so the company took a high level view and changed one major redesign for a dozen minor tweaks. Cool”
Again… haven’t directly dealt with these issues. But I have seen enough to know that transparency doesn’t actually mean ANYTHING if the viewers still have no idea what is going on (terrible analogy… if you could see through your skin and guts to watch your food digest… would you be able to prevent yourself from getting heartburn? I mean, you have all sorts of extra information now…)
I don’t have anything other than an gross idea of what was working when. I know that Investor funding was back in Feb-May last year. It doesn’t take much to sell an idea. Might have been something like this.
We also know that many of the features of the Glowforge had not been finalized or sucessfully integrated at the time of the pre-order campaign. Yes proof of concept was likely complete but the box that you see in all the videos did not have all of the features or even all of the H/W. It wasn’t quite smoke and mirrors but it wasn’t anything that we would recognize as today’s Glowforge. I think the bottom line is that the Glowforge is probably only at the point today that some people thought they were at on Sept 24th. Progress has been slower than hoped, but I understood where they were on Sept 24th so nothing has surprised me. The good news (for me) is that my confidence continues to grow.
On the information thing… We all want more insight into progress. I don’t necessarily agree with how they have managed project information but I don’t have to deal with competitors, investors or intellectual property. It has been made very clear that Glowforge will not provide regular updates, or project status. There is nothing wrong with asking but that horse is dead. Maybe I’m more accepting because saying too much about an engineering project in my world gets you a bed in federal prison.
An observation based on my own experience having bought a CNC and not owning or used one before:
If people think that they’re going to immediately unpack their Glowforge and start churning out million-dollar ideas a day later, they’re in for a huuuuuge surprise. Regardless if it’s sitting right there in front of you, people will be amazed at how long they’re going to be in the learning or design phase.
Unfortunately it sold everyone who thought it could do any kind of metal, too. Hopefully that’s cleared up by now.
Your girlfriend appreciates it.
Then that creates a great opportunity for a third-party marketplace to sprout into existence, no?
Charge people a modest amount to post their designs.
Or let people post designs, and if they don’t hit a certain watermark in a certain number of days, auto-remove them… and charge those that sell well a store fee.
I am not happy with the delay either but, The only thing I can say is, I work in engineering and do electrical design. we have to wait for everyone else to finish their design so we know what space we have to install our equipment.
The one personal project I have going, is a home built CNC, I have never designed a CNC nor built one. there are unforseen things that you cannot predict nor plan for. Like what is the exact size of a component that you do not have in hand. How is it mounted and how can you build it so you can maintain it. See Pictures. This shows the X and Z axes complete.
All this said, before some criticize the delay from Glowforge, I thought I would be finished 6 months ago. You can design all you want but in the end some things have to change and that takes time.
I have been doing design for many years and still there are unforseen things. Until you get the final part in your hand and say Damn that takes up more space than I had planed. Let me rethink this.
Let me add, this machine uses so of the same control phlosiphy that will control the Glowforge, now take the control panel I have with three off the shelf power supplies and and that you do not see a VFD and build all that into the Glowforge.
I do not see that they had any choice but to postpone the ship date.
I dare anyone that has never built a piece of machinery to do so, let us see how long it takes you.
have a great day John.
Regardless if it’s sitting right there in front of you, people will be amazed at how long they’re going to be in the learning or design phase.
