Or it could indicate that shipping across an ocean is more complicated than shipping within one land mass. Maybe they’re looking at different packaging options. Maybe they’re waiting to assemble a large quantity of Glowforges for overseas orders so they can ship them all at once and distribute them further from there. We don’t know, and they won’t tell us. Speculation and demanding answers achieves nothing. You’ve waited 2+ years with fewer answers than you have now. Accept that they’ll ship overseas when they’re ready, and that you don’t get to know the particulars of whatever complications there are, or give up the wait and cancel.
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Would it be less insulting if I said meteorologist? 
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All of the things you mention were still facts several months ago. None of this has changed recently. This post is about trying to find out why everyone’s shipping dates slipped significantly recently.
And I think ‘demanding’ an answer is a little strong. We’d like an answer to put our fears to rest. “Like it or cancel” isn’t really a helpful comment.
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You can like or demand an answer all you want. You’ve been told repeatedly that they won’t share that info. You’re either ignoring it, or you think they’ll give in if you keep asking. They won’t.
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Are you suggesting that we shouldn’t voice our displeasure? We should just keep quiet and accept it? No, sorry, shan’t. And I don’t think @dan would want us to. Everything I’ve heard from this company tells me that they want to know how we feel and what is bothering us. You may be right, they may not tell us. That is there corporate decision. And the reaction that they must accept is customer complaints in response to their decision. As backers and customers that is our right.
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Nope. Feel free to voice your displeasure as often as you like. I’m simply explaining that it won’t make them share info they’ve already stated they won’t share.
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For those who want an explanation as to what caused the estimated shipping dates to be pushed back, what usefulness does this information have to you? If they tell you the supplier of widget #3 can’t make enough widgets, your date doesn’t move back up. If they tell you they’re swamped with sending out replacements for broken Glowforges, your date doesn’t move back up. If they tell you they pushed your date back just to be malicious and see how you react, then you might be justified in wanting an explanation. The reality of the situation is that you’re not entitled to the info, they have chosen not to share the info, and they’ve stated that fact repeatedly. Other than wanting to be fully informed about everything affecting the product you ordered, what purpose would be served by giving you the information you seek?
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It would make us feel better/worse.
It would make us feel more/less confident in getting our machine.
It would allow us to make an informed decision about whether to ask for refund now or wait a little longer.
I think you seem to mistaking what the goal here is. No one is asking for the date to be returned to what it was. We were looking for reassurance and then, when it didn’t come, expressing our disappointment.
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I’m not mistaking anything. I literally asked what the goal was. People are clearly upset that the dates were pushed back. So, while not asking for the dates to be returned to what they were, that would give you the reassurance you need. You’re telling me you don’t want the dates to change back, when that’s exactly why you’re upset in the first place? Ok then. I still don’t see how you would be reassured if Dan said they can’t get the materials they need for production, or the factory had to shut down Carl’s assembly area because he spilled his coffee, or UPS won’t accept any more Glowforges until they finish training their people not to throw them down a flight of stairs before delivery. You’ll get it when it’s ready, regardless of what’s causing the issue. If you somehow believe you won’t get what you ordered, how would the words of the person who says you will, reassure you? If something is making you believe you won’t get the product, the only answer is to cancel your order. Insight into production issues or legal hurdles won’t change a fundamental lack of trust. In other words, if you don’t trust that he’s being truthful when he says you’ll get what you ordered, how could you trust anything else he says regarding the dates being pushed back? If I think someone is being dishonest, I can’t feel reassured by their words. If I believed I wouldn’t be getting what I paid that person thousands of dollars to deliver to me, I’d get a refund immediately.
Now, back to the dates… again.
The dates, at least those that haven’t already passed, could return to the previous, earlier dates. They are estimates, predictions, guesses. People are still choosing to see them as some sort of firm date or promise of delivery. Predictive beta software can’t make promises. I understand the disappointment and frustration. I share the same feelings. I, however, don’t have any reason to believe I won’t get what I paid for at some point. I don’t need explicit details about changes to the schedule, because it won’t change anything for me. People are different. You’re free to be upset by a lack of reassurance from a person/company you don’t trust. I choose to trust them and wait, knowing I’ll eventually get the product, regardless of what’s pushing the date back.
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If I were to put myself in the shoes of an international buyer, I don’t think details about production issues etc. would be the worry. I think I’d be worried that setbacks in the certification process make it less and less likely that I’d get a Glowforge at all.
So I’d want details to be able to determine whether they were bumps or insurmountable hurdles so I can decide whether to keep waiting or jump to another option. I can understand the anxiety and the desire for more information.
It’s true, the details are unlikely to be given for the vary reason that publishing details may actually delay or imperil the certification.
But just because the activity is futile, expressing the anxiety that they may not be on track and a desire for more information seems like a reasonable response to me. I think we’re going to have to continue relaxing and letting people that don’t yet have their Glowforge’s express their worries and wishes for more more info. And offer what little reassurance we can.
I think the history of the forum shows that shouting people down or telling them to just get a refund if they can’t dismiss all of their worries isn’t just impolite, it also doesn’t work.
I’m sorry the dates for the international buyers keep moving back and I suspect this will continue until they get over the hurdle of the first successful delivery to your country. It’s a bummer. I hope they cross that hurdle soon. It’ll be quite a relief every time it happens for quite a number of people.
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I wonder how many of the “it doesn’t matter the reason” crowd go through life not questioning why things are delayed. Seems an odd way to live.
Hello, is my car ready? No, it’s taking longer than expected. You’ll get it back when you do. Oh! Okay, thanks…
Hello, have you completed the plumbing job? No, and you’ll be happy to know we’re not telling you why and you’ll have water when we’re finished. Fine! Thanks!
Hello, any idea why my deck isn’t finished? Yes, but we can’t reveal why, but rest assured you’ll be happy with it when and if we finish. Splendid!
Point is: information is reassuring. Knowing what the hold up is helps. I understand they can’t give specifics, but if the hold up is logistics what’s the harm in saying so? If it’s certification, what’s the harm in saying so? The only thing I could see causing a ruckus is filling all US orders before international, but I don’t think that’s the case. The hold up is likely certification. As mentioned in the December update, perhaps the wildfires impacted it.
Problem is all the December update told us was ‘We continue to move forward on both international deliveries and air filters…’ while indication is internationals slipped by a month - I guess further in to the year is forward… 
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These delays are getting ridiculous. Especially when there is talk of record production at the same time.
At the very least, they would have to interrupt US shipping as soon as CE certification has been completed and all long-awaited units overseas are shipped first. But the current supply forecasts do not indicate this!
This situation isn’t even remotely similar to any of your examples.
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Yeah, people are funny aren’t they?
I am not sure why you say this. I seem to recall that when the estimate system was introduced, there were USA preorders with delivery dates predicted to be in the summer of 2018, and earliest international predictions were February.
I believe @dan has repeatedly said that when they are able to start shipping to a country, doing so will be top priority.
It’s not that they would “interrupt” USA shipping…it’s that the “things being equal” equation would have shifted. What is not equal now is, “Can we ship to the target country?” At this time, the answer is “yes” for the USA, and “no” for everyone else. Once that answer changes for your country, the order date becomes important even compared to USA orders.
For the record, some international buyers (myself included) had dates in January as our prediction.
I suspect that the number of international orders is sufficiently low so as not to impact US shipping too much. If there were more of us I think Glowforge would be a little more proactive getting things sorted. Just speculation I know but hey ho.
Actually, it does.
This is directionally correct, although we won’t divert 100% of our output to a country on the day it comes online. We’ll ramp shipment volumes, monitoring mishaps. This is built into our forecast, though.
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No need to speculate, the estimate rolled to getting it sooner. It may just be Canada, it may just be 2 weeks and may roll back but I feel good today.
Cheers.
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Heh, mine slipped a week (after slipping a month) from May 20th to April 20th now to April 7th.
Just need the dollar to get closer to where it was when I ordered so I can cancel - shouldn’t have to lose money on the deal.
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How about a profit?
Since the machine is selling for twice what you paid, that would entice me to go through the hassle of selling it.