That is one of the driest ads I’ve seen. Holy cow. His voice almost put me to sleep. Ha if your sales rep isn’t excited, it’s a bad sign for overall project.
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It reminded me of those old infomercial ads from the 90’s.
“Just 300 easy payments of $19.99 (plus S&H) and this could be yours!
Ask your parents before ordering.”
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Yeah, it’s pretty clear the dude doesn’t have much voiceover experience. One thing I had to get used to when making videos was to avoid just reading a script, because it’s totally obvious in the end product.
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I burst out laughing at that first scripted line and totally missed the rest of the vid. Guess I’ll have to go watch it again to see if there’s anything in there worth seeing.
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From what I think I understand, possibly incorrectly, their 40w Co2 laser is class IV all by itself. Put it in the right enclosure and you get rated class I. They say you can take the bottom off of the Muse to engrave a door. I’m not sure how a regulatory guy could look at a laser that can run with the bottom off and say that is the same safety level as a fully enclosed Glowforge basic. Weirder stuff happens all the time, I suppose.
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Every 40W CO2 laser is Class 4. The device (laser cutter/engraver) is rated by the ability to harm people in normal use. If you’re told to keep the lid shut then it doesn’t matter if there are safety interlocks in place to keep it from lasing with the lid up. It’s designed to be used closed. All of GF’s safety sensors & interlocks are not what makes the Basic Class 1 - it’s the enclosed laser-impenetrable box that does it. (OSHA may have different requirements for commercial use, but that doesn’t apply to the laser class rating.)
I agree that FSL suggesting that you can take the bottom off and laser a door would imply that as designed there is a potential pathway for laser light escape and thus make it Class 4. However, if the instructions for that feature state that the door must be larger than the bottom and flush with the sides so there can be no leakage, then maybe they make the claim that the door is simply a replacement for the base and it remains Class 1.
They’re not responsible if you don’t follow the instructions and use a narrower door or one where a gap exists between the machine & door. Just as GF is not responsible for someone defeating the interlock on the lid with a couple of magnets and running it with the lid open.
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I suppose that may be an indication of Glowforge’s decision to be very cautious when it comes to safety. That fits with the new laser user target market that they seem to have originally gone after.
I’m just not quite grasping Muse’s target other than the customers that they’ve seen attracted to the Glowforge. It could be that they are just not being as thorough in their thinking. By that I mean their commercial said their machine would give “a new generation of innovators, entrepreneurs, and artists” a way to use this type of tool. I hear that as new laser users. Seems like an abundance of safety thinking might be in order for a group of people like that. But, if their single goal is to get some of the customers dissatisfied by delays and what have you here, then they might have spent their energies mostly on getting a pretty box and an internet commercial.
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I think that’s exactly it. With a form factor that looks like the GF, many of the same features and some features that the GF is missing, it could provide an alternative for people who have lost faith in GF or think the Muse will be delivered first. I expect there are some people who think 80% of a GF relatively soon is worth more than 100% someday.
They can also claim they’re better than GF. No dependence on the internet and some company hosting the software in the cloud (bird in the hand thing). No 1/4" pass through limitation. Rotary capability for glasses, jars and bottles. Better than a GF 
It’s all in how you spin it.
Time will tell whether they are correct.
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Rotary capability (yet no rotary hardware included) for a $2500 premium over full MSRP of GF Basic. Yeah, that sounds like a “better” deal. 
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The rotary attachment is $750(?). How much is GF’s?
The point is, there are things they’re claiming that are better than some of the things GF is claiming. First to hit the street is going to be able to turn loose a ton of PR.
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Yeah I get your point. And the second one to hit the market will be seen as the copycat design simply because of the aesthetic design of the case.
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I can see, if you want to link to a file that’s freely licensed. [quote=“scatterbrains, post:176, topic:2775”]
“if it could be made to open, then it couldn’t be classified as a class I enclosure.”
[/quote]
We’ve been surprised at the positions some manufacturers have taken with regards to the classification of their devices. We’re very conservative with regards to matters of safety.
Exactly. “Class 4 laser in a Class 1 enclosure” - similar to how DVD recorders are constructed and classified.
Regulators don’t look at the product unless someone lodges a complaint, as I understand; they look at the regulatory filings only.
Regulations do require dual, redundant lid switches to shut off the laser if the door opens. We go far beyond that with many more sensors, and with software to provide additional redundancy. For example, each switch directly cuts off the laser, but it also reports its status to the microprocessor so it can detect errors, for example, if the switch started glitching.
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Hmmm… interesting that the makers of the lasers get to decide how they rate it. I suppose that’s good for innovation without too much bureaucracy, but sending a machine like that to a school seems like it could be asking for trouble. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone purchasing for a school would see “class I” and figure that means the laser was thoroughly checked by the government or something for safety like a car.
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The manufacturer claims the class & sends documents to the CDRH to support it. They only lay eyes on it if they get word that all is not as it’s supposed to be.
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I was thinking about this the other day, and correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t @dan say somewhere that there weren’t planning in staying in direct sales once the product starts to ship. If I’m remembering that correctly I take that to mean they plan to sell retail off the self (Best-Buy, or whatever). If that is the case it could very well make the Muse a moot point. Glowforge is obviously making a grab for the non-technical, non-maker crowd, and if they manage to go off the shelf retail the Muse won’t be a big consideration. You only find it if you go looking for a laser, not just walking through a store. Of course, maybe I dreamed that, quick search of the forum and I didn’t find it again.
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And although the GF is a big-ticket item, it’s not all that big-ticket compared to other serious craft items (see, for example. quilting rigs).
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quilting rigs, computer controlled embroiderers, X-Carve/Carvey and other small format CNC router tables along with ShopBot CNC routers, Vinyl cutter systems from Roland, Graphtech, Summa. Torchmate CNC plasma cutters, etc, lots of spendy fun hobby equipment out there.
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We may have both online and retail distribution in the future. Right now, we’re working on the distributions you already paid for! 
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Go use a non-auto focus laser like a Muse and then use an autofocus laser…you will pay extra for the autofocus laser…wait! The GF is less money! Sure if you can’t live with GF’s limitations - Z height, no rotary, wifi connection…then autofocus doesn’t matter, but you’ll have to pony-up a lot more money for those features. Go 
- Rich
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Just to play devils advocate. I have the a “non-auto” focus laser (k40). And i really dont find focusing to be that difficult. My first project was cutting a shim to focal length. I adjust the bed to fit the shim + material and its done. Maybe a 5 min project if the material is super weird? 60 seconds if its regular ply.
Now I will concede that focusing on the FLY is very cool, and I think that is what separates the capabilities of the autofocus and makes it a worthwhile feature. (but its also very high on my “this has never been demonstrated and makes me worried” list)
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