Air Filter Latest


#181

I believe the observation was that the company has failed to deliver goods that it took money from many of us more than three years ago. This is not usually considered a sign of stellar performance.

I would add that the Amwayesque stylings of overzealous Glowforgers eagerly hawking their referral codes further lend the product something of a scammy odor in many fora that can’t be good for its reputation in the long term.


#182

I eagerly await my filter I paid for a long time ago as well, but I have been happy with the level of communication from the company re: this issue and I appreciate the steps being taken to produce something of quality and not slamming out a product to meet a sales goal.

And if we judge a product / company based on slimy practices by consumers, line up just about any company you can think of and treat em the same. Perhaps they could just reign in the referral codes, but you can’t honestly blame that on Glowforge.


#183

People involved in Amway are incentivized for obnoxious behavior undertaken in the name of Amway. Whether or not you blame Amway for that – and it seems reasonable to do so, given that it’s inherent to their business model – many people still roll their eyes and make excuses when they hear “Amway”.

Glowforge is making substantial payments to people to flog laser cutters, and as a result it is difficult to have a conversation about choosing a laser cutter without someone shoving a referral code in your face. Whether or not you blame Glowforge for that – and it seems reasonable to do so, since they’ve made it their business model – the eyes still roll. At a minimum it introduces doubt as to whether the chatter one might hear about people liking their Glowforges is genuine, and whether you really want to buy into Maker Amway.


#184

People involved in car sales, appliance sales, furniture sales, electronic sales all are incentivised for obnoxious behavior. That’s the human condition mixed with incentive. Yes, perhaps doing away with the incentives would be in the best interest of Glowforge IF the general perception is they’re becoming another Amway. But then again Amway is a pyramid scheme masquerading as a legitimate business, hence the general eye rolling happening at the mere mention of their name.

I personally (and can’t speak obviously for anyone else) haven’t seen that, haven’t heard that and haven’t seen a huge backlash from consumers. I do check quite often news and sources for Glowforge to glean some perception of the buzz out there. Most recently they were featured in Make magazine and received a Make Editors Choice, so I think that’s pretty good.

At any rate, I understand what you’re saying and I certainly don’t want Glowforge to get a slimy or repugnant reputation.

Also - back to the failing to delivering goods - I backed the Buccanneer 3D printer back in 2014 and they seemed to be on the same path as Glowforge, producing a good product, but also hitting production and quality issues. They had a decent communication stream for a while, but once it became aware they were really hitting walls, the shuttered the doors and stopped communicating. I hesitated with Glowforge because of them (and this was a $6k investment not $400) but there were subtle differences in the communication, communication practices and a level of transparency that Dan / Staff have displayed here. Granted I had to wait longer to get my Forge, I’m happy I backed it, happy I have it and I’ll be (very) happy when I get my air filter. And I know I will, and I’ll also have a much more refined air filter because of their attention to detail and doing what’s right in the end.

Now if I could just get Snapmark enabled on mine… :slight_smile:


#185

Any updates? It’s getting to feel a lot like Christmas (it already feels like Hanukkah!).


#186

The problem with this statement - and it seems to be a problem with many of the people who put money into Kickstarters/Indiegogo/etc. is that you in no way shape or form gave them money more than three years ago “for a product”. You gave them money more than three years ago for them to start a company. You are a small scale venture capitalist (as is everyone who backs a crowd-funded campaign). The rate of return on VCs is shockingly low - but generally when you do hit a good one you get something wonderful.

If you think you bought something then you should probably avoid investing in companies that don’t exist yet. It’ll only hurt you!

(I have been shockingly successful in my tiny-VC, having only 1 fail out of many, but even with that being true I put in the capital and then pretend it’s gone. That way if in a month, or 6 months, or 6 years something materializes it’s a wonderful surprise. If you want to be in the know and/or a decision maker you should try to get involved in the companies directly…but that’ll cost you a hell of a lot more than a Kickstarter!)


#187

You plunked down thousands of dollars on something that you expected not to get? Really? I have been scolded on this forum before for expecting to get my pre-order in less than six years – despite the fact that Dan said he would start shipping before the end of 2015 – but this is the first time I’ve been chided that I should thank my lucky stars if I get anything at all.

Glowforge was a pre-order campaign, not a Kickstarter, and that was done with intention. I did, indeed, order a product, and they are, indeed, obligated to deliver the product or refund my money. This is why all the pre-order money is kept in a separate account and the company only recognizes it as revenue when the product is delivered. It is not, and never was, start-up capital.

I emphatically did not pay Dan to start a company. He had a company, with $9 million in VC funding, before he ever started taking preorders.

A venture capitalist, by definition, takes equity in the company they invest in. There is really no way in which making a pre-order or even backing a Kickstarter is similar to being a VC other than that both involve some risk. Buying an airline ticket during flu season also involves risk, but booking a trip to Florida in January doesn’t make me a venture capitalist.


#188

Kickstarter’s terms of service:

"Throughout the process, creators owe their backers a high standard of effort, honest communication, and a dedication to bringing the project to life. At the same time, backers must understand that when they back a project, they’re helping to create something new — not ordering something that already exists. There may be changes or delays, and there’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised. "


#189

Not taking sides here, because there are good points all around (and also I’m still totally in love with my machine and therefore biased) but Glowforge was never a Kickstarter. They did their own thing.


#190

the Glowforge was not a kickstarter, so their terms of service aren’t at all relevant.

GF crowdfunded, but with the understanding that you could be refunded your payment at any time.

in the long run (and i mean long), this was a big negative for many outside of the US when the exchange rate changes essentially meant they lost money if they took a refund.


#191

Doh! It was Kickoff not Kickstarter, you’re both correct.

That being said. Yes, I did put that money down knowing there was a chance it would fail. Was I hoping it wouldn’t? Absolutely - as I do on all crowd funded campaigns.

The important part being that the :glowforge: as advertised didn’t exist when we plunked money down. It was still in dev, which at least I understood, meant that there was no such thing as a guaranteed date. I’ve never seen a large scale first-of-its-kind project hit a delivery date, especially not a software/hardware combo one

I’m out. Got some 'Forging to do!


#192

yes very disappointing smh!


#193

Totally agree I love my glowforge though I almost never get to use it. And even though mine has been delivered and I’m waiting on the air filter like so many others, so I can truly use it.

I do perfectly see people’s confusion about pre-order vs crowd fund. In all the flashy advertisement and presentations it just wasn’t that clear. Unlike the poor international folks still waiting I’ve got my machine. I empathize heavily with folks still waiting.