Can I engrave forged steel?

Community Support
23

So the short answer is indeed NO, Glowforge cannot and will not actually engrave metal, certainly not steel or brass, two materials they specifically state that it CAN engrave. Below is their email reply to me received this evening. I have requested in no uncertain terms that they retract the claims they are making and replace them with something like “MARKS metals when used with Cermark or related coatings and processes, does not remove any actual material, merely discolors the surface…”

Glowforge looks like a great product, why make misleading claims???

Quoting “Maya (Glowforge)” support@glowforge.zendesk.com: >##- Please type your reply above this line -##

Your request (5661) has been updated. To add additional comments, reply to this email.

Maya, Oct 9, 15:50

Hello William,

I’m so sorry about the confusion and understand your concern
regarding the metals you can work with. I know a Glowforge is a big
investment, and we want to make sure you are happy with your purchase!

Glowforge can etch some metals, like anodized aluminum, directly.
Other metals, like stainless steel, work best if you spray them first
with a product called Cermark. This process discolors the metals but
does not engrave them away, so the surface still feels smooth to the
touch.

Unfortunately the power levels of a desktop
machine aren’t quite enough to cut metal, so your best bet is
lasercutting a template or jig, then using that as a guide for a blade
or saw. I should also mention that we’re big fans of Othermill and
X-Carve, desktop CNC machines that can mill out soft metals. We want to
be sure you get the right tool for what you need!

Unfortunately soft metals like gold, silver, brass, copper, and the
like don’t cut or engrave well. A high-powered YAG laser or fiber laser
may be able to do it, or consider a product like Othermill or Carvey -
both excellent devices from friends of ours!

You
mentioned you were also concerned about when you would receive your
Glowforge. The very first Glowforge units will start shipping in
December 2015. Those are going to high-volume locations where they’ll
get a ton of use and abuse, so we can see if we’re meeting our quality
goals. From that point, we’ll know if we can ramp production
immediately, or whether we need to fix any issues. Either way, our plan
is to have all units shipped in the first half of 2016.

Of course, we’re going to keep our backers up to date on the whole production and shipping process!

Again, I apologize this information wasn’t clear. If you have any follow up questions, please feel free to get back to me.

In the meantime, there’s a ton of information at
https://glowforge.zendesk.com/hc/en-us
and our tech specs at
Glowforge - the 3D laser printer
Really appreciate your interest in the product we’ve all been working so hard on!

Thanks,
Maya

2 Likes
24

I feel like this is all due to a differing use of the term “engrave” within the laser community and in common usage. I was expecting anything called “engraving” to remove material. I was feeling a little put out that my expectations weren’t going to be met, but I’m realizing now that the issue was with my narrow definition, not with Glowforge’s claims. If everyone else in the laser industry calls “marking” using a laser and Thermark “engraving” then it would be silly for Glowforge to do anything different. They could use an asterisk to clarify that engraving on uncoated metal can only be achieved with a marking compound to make sure those of us who are new to lasers aren’t going to misunderstand, but honestly their business is making the Glowforge, not educating all of us on the terminology. They have done some of that, but it’s above and beyond what they need to do, and they aren’t being misleading by not defining all the terms for us noobs.

1 Like
25

The definition of engrave isn’t really up for debate. It is what it is and that’s a subtractive process. If some people misuse the term to market their product that doesn’t actually change what it means…it’s just misleading marketing.

3 Likes
26

I think the difficulty people are having is that “Engrave” and “Laser Engraving” have two different meanings. I mean searching “Laser Engraving” into a search engine you find many 40W CO2 lasers that make clear the same claims glowforge has made and that people are iterating within this thread regarding.

I think with Glowforge trying to bring laser cutting to the mass market with this great product, they will have the spotlight to have to bridge the gab between the established community and those just now dipping their toes into it. As a person who knows nothing about laser cutting prior to the announcement of this product, I not only have learned a lot but do not feel misguided.

3 Likes
27

Maybe I don’t understand the terminology or the process with laser, but isn’t metal engraving, for the purpose of this thread actually a form of stippling by mechanical means? I know on my Curio the stippling attachment (they have not yet released those tools) are the only tools they market that actually etches on metal. Still very low power but one where there is actual contact by a hard metal against a softer metal. I probably would not want a laser that could remove metal imho.

28

Wikipedia seems to think using a marking agent such as Cermark leads to Laser Bonding.

the Ferro corporation webpage for their product CerMark uses the term mark. The word of the common people seems to be either engrave, laser engrave, mark or just cermark/thermark.

Most metal just have such excellent heat transfer I suspect you need a crazy powerful laser to directly make any significant change to the point where the laser hits your metal.

But these are just my thoughts. I’m sure a laser pro or maybe Glowforge will correct me where I’m wrong.

1 Like
29

Laser engraving metals is a specific technique that uses a FIBER laser not a CO2 laser to actually remove and/or cut through metal stock. It is a subtractive technique. You can’t engrave metal on a CO2 laser, end of story. You can say you’re engraving but you can say anything you want in marketing materials as long as no one complains. Bottom line, it’s misleading and causing a lot of confusion.

2 Likes
30

Late to the party, but I can tell you that I’ve marked steel with a 60w laser, no Cermark required. It’s a super slow burn, and if you slowed it down, you could probably manage it with a 45w providing the software for the CNC part goes slow enough.

This was a 30 minute run: Marked steel flask by Em2a Studios

If you know something about metal working, you’ll notice that what’s occurring is called “fire scaling.” It discolours and oxidizes the metal based on what it’s made up from. Technically, that’s an engrave on the micro level, burning away atoms on the top layer. If you’re thinking that the laser could remove material on a deeper level, I can tell you that it’s faster to use a drill bit and CNC engraver.

I know of people using 15000w lasers to cut titanium. However, I don’t want to pay that electrical bill, and I’m sure you’d be shocked at the size and work it takes to manage something like that.

4 Likes
31

That link throws a ‘Forbidden’

32

Interesting. It doesn’t on my end, but, then, it’s my website, it does what it wants.

It’s the one on the top right in my portfolio: Em2a Studios > Portfolios > Maker Work

1 Like
33

I have seen some people “marking” titanium by generating oxidation colors with a laser. Is that something you have ever tried?

I used to make a lot of titanium jewelry by anodizing (which on Ti is essentially the same effect from a different process), and I would be super interested in doing it in my Glowforge!

34

@jkopel I personally have not, yet. My titanium wedding ring was impact engraved into the anodized colour and I’ve seen it done in the powdercoat. I do know some guys in my local TechShop who have, and I can see about trying to get a picture from them if you’d like?

35

Thanks! I can probably (maybe) just wait until I get my Glowforge. I have a bunch of sheet titanium and even some niobium wire that I found stashed in a box. I helps to be a packrat.

36

Strange - somehow this thread has never shown up on my ‘unread’ meter, so I’ve never seen it to reply.

I think this is all sorted now, so I’m not sure there’s much to add. The laser discoloration process is commonly referred to as engraving, so that’s how we describe it as well. If you want to use forged steel, you’ll need to use Cermark, Thermark, or similar. Any specific questions, happy to try to answer.

1 Like
37

hey Dan, I’m new to all this, and i kinda know that different lasers are for different jobs etc, but would the glowforge laser handle engraving on something like a hip last/zippo lighter?
i have ordered my glowforge and excited to get it and start letting my ideas come to life!

38

You will not be able to engrave or make deep marks on a metal lighter or any metal object. With one of the marking compounds mentioned in this thread you WILL be able to do relatively permanent “engraving” or marking.

I would suggest you click the title at the top of the page and read the thread from the beginning, there is lots of good information here!

2 Likes
39

An earlier forum post… [quote=“Rorschach, post:1, topic:441, full:true”]
One of things I would like to use my glowforge for is doing custom engraving on lighters such as zippos. Is this going to be possible?
[/quote]

1 Like
40

There are a number of painted/coated zippos that I hope will accept laser marks just fine with no additional treatment, although no, we won’t be able to engrave them, or do much of anything at all to the plain metal ones without some kind of marking compound like thermark.

1 Like
41

I just recently saw an instructable about using ferric chloride etchant for making nifty patterns on knives. It suggests using all manner of substances as etchant resist, e.g., fingernail polish, sharpie markers, stickers.

It immediately occurred to me that one might be able to apply etchant resist across a large metal surface, and then use the glowforge to selectively remove the resist prior to the objects immersion in the etchant bath.

In this manner, the laser isn’t actually marking the metal, but very precisely preparing the areas that will be marked by the etchant.

I’ve seen a few other examples of folks using much lower-powered lasers in this manner to create printed circuit boards.

I’m giddy-excited to try the process for both pcboard creation and various artistic avenues, once the magic box of purple glowing happiness takes up residence in the mad-science cave!

6 Likes
42

Yes, that should work well, and with the right combo you would be able to make some very cool patterns