Not really a response to hippy since she is apparently already gone. But a comment for anyone else who is paranoid about censorship. Do note that the second longest thread in the entire forums is one which started off with direct and unapologetic complaints about the product.
It clearly states the post was flagged by the community. So first off, it reflects none at all on the GlowForge company and staff.
The post effectively compared the company to porn. So how in re-reading hippy failed to see anything at all which would be taken as offensive is a mystery.
The response right after agreed with hippy and was not censored by the community at large. So it pretty clearly isn’t about the negativity toward the company, but rather the attitude of the post itself.
I personally do not mind hippy’s post, as I can see that she is upset, so venting is expected. She completely failed to consider the viewpoint of those to whom she had responded though. Which is why in my response above I attempted to make it clear in what was she had been, unintentionally I am sure, spinning the words negatively, and showing how you indeed can read those words in a non-negative manner.
@hippyclippy That’s not the case in fact I’ve stated my opinions and found none of my comments deleted even if it could be taken as offensive by the GF team. In short talk is just what it is, I’m sure everyone will be onboard when shipping starts. Nobody said the machine would be delivered once purchased so everyone is aware the units will begin shipping some time next year. The rest is up to the team if they wish to communicate that’s why I was saying you guys are lucky @Dan is even commenting since if he was acting like most crowd funding campaign directors he wouldn’t even be doing that so whatever he says I think you should analyze that at least he’s saying something rather than ignoring everyone until delivery time. And at least he’s being honest and not just saying what everyone wants to here, thats integrity. Any who lets talk tech or something bigger like Graphene and its conductive capabilities rather than wine back and forth unless you want some expensive cheese to go with it.
I’d like to just add, that I had previously done an ACTUAL kickstarter before for the HoneyFlow. Glowforge is NOT a kickstarter, and the pre-order campaign clearly stated on the front page, shipping in December 2015. Everything about the campaign stated they actually HAD a product complete. The videos, their appearances at maker faires with hands on products, etc.
So let’s get that straight first and foremost. When I originally pre-ordered, I was under the impression I was going to see production shipping in December of THIS year. I figured it would be a couple months give or take, but I was ok with that. Things seem to slowly be changing on that front, and I’ve heard people saying that we’d be lucky to see them by NEXT December, or at best case scenario, the summer of 2016. That’s NOT ok.
With all of that out of the way, I want to go back to my first and only kickstarted experience with the HoneyFlow company. I received a weekly email update from the two founders, explaining each step of the process they were in…and that was literally from nothing but a prototype. The difference was, the kickstarter was clear and set a concrete shipping date. They stuck to it as well, and even shipped early. From Australia.
It was one of the coolest experiences I’ve gone through on the internet, and I DO have faith in the Glowforge team…I just wish it was as open and forth coming as they were pre-order.
The Glowforge website has always said shopping starts in December. They have never said every unit is shipping in December and it had always been clear to anyone who bothered to do some research that most of the units were being shipped out sometime next year.
I was able to read your post after someone flagged it. Didn’t see a problem. Don’t agree but the post was certainly within the bounds of the ongoing discussion.
Back to the original requests for info. There is a audio blog (Nov 12) that includes an hour interview with Dan Shapiro. The first 37 minutes contains tidbits of info about the company and design of the GF itself. Definitely worth a listen. http://embedded.fm/episodes/125
I have to say that, although I remain concerned about the final product being a well developed unit, I do appreciate Dan’s responses. I contacted Glowforge on Twitter regarding the “promo” pricing and the final retail pricing, the response was both reassuring that they would happily refund my money, but also short and terse. I’ve taken into consideration that Glowforge at this moment is in a HUGE position of responsibility. Having millions in the bank may seem like they’re rolling in the dough, but millions can be easily lost before production even starts if the production line quality isn’t closely monitored and QA’d to the slightest detail. I’m more than happy to wait another 3 or 4 months to get a great product that’s stable rather than quickly delivered and falling apart due to being rushed.
I too have stuck my neck out early with Prusa i3’s from Singapore, an X-Carve from Chicago, and Ultimaker 2 from the Netherlands. I don’t care much for x-Carve’s online software ‘Easel’ and am hoping the team at Glowforge can implement a much more robust cloud program. I’m getting a little used to this whole process of ordering from crowdfunded companies, but its still worrisome at times.
Remember though, Dan isn’t exactly a unknown, he’s been around and has started and ended projects. I’m happy to see a family man is at the helm, it’s kind of hard to run away to Tanzania with little ones and a wife. Some of you guys need to relax a bit and let these guys work. Believe me I’m just as anxious as you are.
Some of you guys may not want to see that maintaining a ‘professional’ atmosphere is isn’t on his list of priorities, but as a reader the first thing in my head is that’s exactly the person I’d want to work for. If the talent at Glowforge is happy and feeling creative, I’m really hoping this thing comes together better than advertised. Happy talented workers is what you need to make things come together quickly.
I understand that some folks have concerns based on not being treated a certain way buy a company. Some people refer this as professionalism, for better or worse.
Now, compared with the last crowd funded product I invested in ( and eventually received) , the amount of communication in the forums from Dan is exceeding my expectations. I am trying to understand why a “state of the GF” is even needed if the information coming from Dan is more than usually conveyed, at least in my experience. Maybe, some folks would just feel better with reading a minimalist summary of where GF is at the end of the month once a month rather than Dan’s deluge of replies? The replies are enjoyable and factual, which I appreciate.
First of all, I’ll bet the Glowforge team is working nonstop to get the product out the door. I’m sure they are doing a great job with a lot–a lot–of really difficult tasks. That said, as a communications professional I’m surprised that they don’t continue to tell the story and engage people who are interested. The kind of dedicated passion and mindshare they have is something at other companies kill for. It’s not something that should be squandered. Dan is obviously extremely busy, but someone else should have the job of continuing to tell the Glowforge story and keep people engaged and excited. My own experience is that engineers often see “PR people” as being engaged in fake happy talk, but what we really do is social engagement–a kind of mind-melding–which is not a waste of money.
Don’t disagree. It would be prudent to get an occasional email out to those folks that aren’t fully engaged with this forum… There are probably thousands of owners that have never viewed these boards and mistakenly think the communication has stopped. There is a lot going on outside of this forum but it’s not easy to find. For example: Last weeks interview http://embedded.fm/episodes/125 gives us additional information about the power supplies, cameras, etc. The quoted shipping schedule is the same so that implies project status has not changed. For those that are concerned about company operations and professionalism the interview gives you an insight into Dan Shapiro’s approach. Separately, several of the FAQs have been edited on the GF main site providing clarity to our early questions about air filter design, shipping costs, and shipping schedule but who would know to look for the updates? I’m not going to get into a discussion whether the level of information is adequate. Still, ensuring the non-engaged owners are updated via email may be a smart move.
Getting all new owners to at least join the forum would be great. I set it up to receive an email about every post made and it’s a wonderful way to keep up to date and in the loop. During the campaign days, I would get over 50 some days, and now even though it’s slowed down, I make it part of my day to read each and every one.
Yes, there are a lot of potential forum users that aren’t getting involved. Quite a few unique viewers. I haven’t gotten the invite badge yet. I followed up how it is pushed on www.glowforge.com. Kind of minimal connection between forum and main site as an owner at first glance.
A quick email out to all pre-order purchasers encouraging them to set up a weekly digest, or at least an email notification from anything in the Announcements category would be a phenomenal first step.
But yeah… no matter how much you push for it, many people just do not do forums. And of those who do, few will actually read everything. Quite a few will come in weekly at most, glance at a few topic headers for anything of interest, and move on thinking there was nothing good to read.
Though having anything more than an email a month which is blasted out to all purchasers will certainly get people complaining of spamming their inbox. So it may be a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” scenario.
Good Call, I had only been searching forums and just went to these other areas. very informative. @rpegg I saw your thread titled “Realistic Expectations” regarding beta testers around the seattle area to start with. An update here or maybe question that i seem to have missed…I noticed on facebook and in the Shipping FAQ, a breif comment:
If you’re interested in getting an earlier, beta unit, then after you purchase, keep an eye on your email. We’ll send an email when we’re ready for volunteers to try the first units.
I suppose that in some sense all that purchased pre-order are beta testers to an extent since we will all be on whatever current version of software and if I understand how this cloud deal will work, even the folks who buy retail will be part of a community where everyone has a chance for feedback to make it better and better. Looking forward to seeing the features this machine can do as they keep getting added
This is my first crowd-funded pre-purchase. I had absolutely no idea what to expect. And what I am finding is that, for me, the conversational forum approach has been working well and I have no worries about eventually receiving a high-quality product. That said, as the forum gets more and more use it also gets more and more difficult to keep track of every post, each little gem of information. I have been trying my best, but even so I find that sometimes posts from a month back escaped my attention, and contained some piece of information that I found helpful, interesting, important, and (only occasionally) worrisome.
Coming from a video/media background, I agree completely with this statement:
This is an interesting project. Not just for the designers, not just for the investors, not just for the owners. There are many different angles to the entire project that beg for documentation: Successful startup? Check. Innovative product? Check. Record breaking crowd-funding? Check. Non-traditional hiring methods and casual workplace? Check. Disruptive technology? Check. Eager audience, ready to watch and begging for more? Check.
One of the harder things to do in film-making is to find an engaging subject, especially one that has not been worked to death… and here is Glowforge with that in hand, but too busy to run with it.
When I was in film school, one of the standard projects was “Find something to make a documentary about, and make it.” When I graduated from university and started looking for a real job was when I discovered that having an had internship would have been a better move for finding a job than having covered a wide range of subjects in classes. I wonder if there is a film school, or an arts school nearby your location, that could provide you with a film/video intern or two. Someone who will be happy to work for school credit AND who knows their way around a tripod, boom and gimbal. They would be guaranteed hundreds of hits on their youtube channel from forum users alone, and if my initial sense of @dan and @aeva 's humor and charisma is correct (and especially if it extends to others in the office from whom we have not heard as much) than I think it would be a whole lot more than that.
And just maybe it would calm down some of the folks who have concerns about… stuff.
just my2¢
[quote=“rpegg, post:60, topic:742, full:true”]
Don’t disagree. It would be prudent to get an occasional email out to those folks that aren’t fully engaged with this forum… There are probably thousands of owners that have never viewed these boards and mistakenly think the communication has stopped. There is a lot going on outside of this forum but it’s not easy to find. For example: Last weeks interview http://embedded.fm/episodes/125 gives us additional information about the power supplies, cameras, etc. [/quote]
The GlowForge community should be made aware of that interview. I listened to it yesterday and it addressed several of my concerns with the product in a very satisfactory manner, perhaps mostly because Dan was able to answer there in a lot more depth than his time allows here in the forums.
