Discussion of June '17 update

[gmckayca]

Like many of those who have been waiting for their GF for over a year, I was disheartened and disappointed with the news of the delay in the update email yesterday from @dan, but also excited to hear about the improvements that have been made, including with the Pro version.

It WILL be a better machine when we get it than it would have been a year ago, or even 6 months ago. But it’s understandable for so many to be frustrated with the delay, when less than a month ago the GF folks were still promoting the earlier delivery dates. I would not characterize this change of schedule in such harsh terms as several have done, but I will say that the communications with the customer base has room for improvement. If GF had announced at BAMF that they had begun shipping, but the overall delivery schedule completion date had been pushed back for various reasons, with the final timing still being determined, the bad news part of the announcement yesterday would not have PO’d some people as much.

I want my GF, and I want it now. But it’s not ready for me now. I need to wait, and put all of those wonderful projects I have in mind on hold yet again. I know there are many others in the same boat.

Yeah, there’s another delay, but there’s also a light at the end of the tunnel. All of us can take reassurance in that fact that real people are receiving real machines that work. So I have no plans to give up on my order. As a matter of fact, I am now contemplating whether to upgrade to a Pro version just as @Jules is apparently planning to do. (She seems to be a good person to follow the lead with.)

An OB doctor told me last week when my wife was being examined that he can tell I am the patient one. I am, and it has not worn thin yet on the GF. Of course, that does not mean I won’t be bothered by another delay. My wife and I have been together for over 17 years, and we’ll bring twins into the world next week after a long wait. Hopefully, GF will now also be able to exceed our expectations on delivery in terms of both timing and the quality of the box we get. As many of the lucky ones who have one on hand have said, it will be worth the wait. I’m sure that goes for twins, too. Right, @dan?

[afourtrackmind]

Ive designed products from the conception to delivery. It’s very tough and there a lot of unknowns along the way. I appreciate how hard it is to get it right. I’ve made the poor decision of shipping before completely confident and it hurt, badly. Subsequently, you learn that an unhappy customer due to wait is the lesser of two evils if the product will get returned for being a lemon. However, waiting is certainly difficult for its own reasons.

So, from my experience I say, go Glowforge team! Take a second to revel, you’ve begun shipping. This is a big deal. Congratulations are in order and you should be very proud. Also, the next few months are gonna be tough, so saviour this morsel of victory!

Congrats and thank you.

[lcronkite]

Reading all these “poor little old me” posts makes me want to puke.
You lost interest on the cash you sent to GF. Yeah, right. With the interest the banks have been paying for the last several years, it must have been all of two dollars - or two cents.
You lost business because the item that was more than just a glimmer in Dan’s eye didn’t become the white knight to save your sorry ass.
Let me tell you my story: I was 84 when I order my Pro and figured I would have it for my 85th birthday . I now see that I won’t even get it for my 86th in July. I have contacted GF and told them that if I didn’t respond to the “It’s on its way” email that they should contact my heir and they have graciously agreed. If you think this a shameless plug to get an early GF, you are exactly right!

[Jules]

@gmckayca

we’ll bring twins into the world next week after a long wait.

Whoa! That is awesome news! Congratulations!
(Double the fun! Be sure to post pictures on the forum after the happy event…we’ve got a whole thread for Glowbabies!)

[drkstr318]

Hope it works out for you and good luck. DINSTAAR!

[dan]

@tawatkin2000

It’s the fact that (and I may be mistaken) that there appears to have been very little effort to either mitigate the high shipping costs for international buyers, or to compensate them in a manner relative to that given to those within the mainland USA.

We do, in fact, spend more dollars and time (even after accounting for higher shipping rates) per customer on our international customers than we do our domestic ones.

@eric2

I ordered the air filter with the PRO model. Does that mean that my Glowforge will not come till September, with the Air filter is ready?

No, we’ll offer to ship your Pro as soon as it’s ready, and the air filter separately when it is ready.

@mad_macs

Something is at odds here. Could Flex have underestimated production so poorly? We are told they are the best in the biz. How could they have made such a miscalculation, so very late in the game?

At each step along the way we learn things. What we’ve determined with Flex is that we need a more measured ramp to full production velocity than we planned, or we risk our quality bar. If we ramped faster, we’d wind up missing problems. For example, right now we have an extremely long test period for each unit. To ramp, we shorten that test pass. (Fewer hours per machine means more machines per day). We don’t want to do that until we’re certain that moving faster won’t result in shipping defects.

@emilycarolinemiller1

I was under the, perhaps mistaken, impression that Glowforge founder was a lifetime appointment and that founders would have a 10% discount in the glowforge store.

Previously we said that founder was a lifetime appointment, and that the first founder benefit was 10% discount through the end of 2017. We just increased that benefit to last through the end of 2018.

@jimstock60

Question on the monthly $20.

$20 per full month.[quote=“violettatalley, post:266, topic:8394”]
I feel it is my place to give you a virtual pat-on-the-back, a high-five (and a hug, if needed) for all of your efforts to-date.
[/quote]

Thank you. I don’t think I deserve it until I deliver for you (and everyone else), but will take it just the same!

@vsaunders

When the Pro safety information is released, will it be posted to the forum or emailed?

We haven’t decided on the delivery plan. This may seem odd, but Class 4 laser instruction typically costs thousands of dollars (and is costing us immense dollars to produce), so we’re not jumping to post it all over the internet. We’ll announce distribution plans here when they’re ready.

@rachelreneelim

Shipping is very expensive. Is there any way that we can purchase whatever materials to be shipped together with the glow forge in order to save some money?

We tried to make that happen for you, but unfortunately couldn’t design the logistics & packaging to accommodate it.

@palmercr

I think they will be organised by purchase time when that particular country starts shipping but each country will only start when its legal and logistical requirements have been solved.

Correct.[quote=“dledoux, post:290, topic:8394”]
I ordered a Basic on 9/25/2015. On the spreadsheet I see that some of the orders placed AFTER mine have already gotten emails.
[/quote]

We shipped out some of the prerelease units and first production run (<100 units) to selected folks for early feedback. You will also see that if you ordered a different product, or from a different country.

@destiney_glenn

People have a right to be upset and people also have a right to be optimistic, there is really no reason to rag on anyone for their feelings, everyone is entitled to them.

I agree completely. People have every right to be upset with us. We’ve let you down. We hope you’ll forgive us when you get your Glowforge.

@gmckayca

As many of the lucky ones who have one on hand have said, it will be worth the wait. I’m sure that goes for twins, too. Right, @dan?

Darn tootin. Congratulations!!!

[rpegg]

And a good one. Much younger but even my mortality has crossed the mind in relationship to the wait.

[bailey]

It’s…somewhere north of that but south of 24/7.

[tk_0384]

Agree with the folk feeling disappointed with the delivery window update. I’ve been telling clients “when I get my laser cutter” ever since early 2016. I’ve had to pass on a good bit of what could have been profitable work as well, more than once telling a client “I’ll have a cutter in a month” and then having to go back and say “oh sorry, that’s 7 months now, you’ll need to go elsewhere.”

Am I happy that units are shipping now? Sure. Am I ok with the delivery window now going out until October 31? Nope.

[caribis2]

@mad_macs

I have a K40, It has little in the way of safety, no interlocks, poor grounding, and no FCC. I did get a mild shock from it once. It still seems to have made its way here.

If the K40 doesn’t have WiFi or Bluetooth then it shouldn’t need an FCC approval. In my experience over the years the US cares somewhat about an appliance burning something down and considerably less about someone being electrocuted. But put a radio in it and all sorts of rules come down on your head.

[palmercr]

All electronics need FCC to show they don’t emit RF noise and are immune to a certain level of RF noise. It isn’t just radio devices, which have further requirements.

[jason.fuller0]

@tk_0384

Am I ok with the delivery window now going out until October 31? Nope.

Well, the same options remain as have been in place for some time.

[caribis2]

Yes, emissions and susceptibility testing, but you don’t necessarily need the FCC mark without a radio. With it, obviously, you need it. I don’t doubt there is a middle place as well, but I have yet to run afoul of it. If the device has a screen you can place the FCC info in the software as long as it isn’t more than three levels down from the main screen. I placed one two levels down once because I didn’t know if the optional login screen counted as a level. I assumed that is what he meant by “no FCC” was no FCC mark on the device.

[dan_berry]

@caribis2

If the K40 doesn’t have WiFi or Bluetooth then it shouldn’t need an FCC approval.

By the regulation, the FCC DoC certification mark is mandatory for devices classified under part 15 (IT equipment like computers, switched-mode power supplies, monitors etc., television receivers, cable system devices, low-power transmitters, un-licensed personal communication devices) and part 18 (industrial, scientific, and medical (ISM) devices that emit RF radiation) of the FCC regulations.
–Wikipedia

Power supplies alone meets one classification, but also being an industrial piece of equipment whose whole purpose is to emit high-frequency energy waves in the visible spectrum makes it doubly-so.

Then there’s UL/CSA approval that basically attempts to assure people “it won’t kill you”.

[newbies_234]

Wow the bottom of this topic has gone WAYYYY off the rails

[dan_berry]

lol… honestly, the ability to merge topics in Discourse is great, but I wish there was more of a feature to fork topics (and all replies) at a certain message.

[caribis2]

Pretty much been part 18, but not emitting RF (if you emit radiation, as in medical imaging, FCC rules are the least of your problems.) We’re very picky about our power supplies and only buy expensive ones that meet certain standards, but they don’t have a FCC mark. This would explain why my monitors have an FCC mark without a radio.

As regards CSA approval, that’s because you’re in Canada and they care about you.

[markwal]

Actually I think your totally made up numbers are as good as anybody’s random guess at the moment and probably a bit better. Sure, it’s an over simplification and anybody with real production information isn’t going to share it with us anyway, so doing some handwavy math is the best we’re gonna get. I’m glad you made the attempt and shared it.

And also I’m glad that you put the caveats there since without them there’s bound to be somebody who thinks that you owe them something if you’re wrong (probably anyway, such is the internet).

Also, I bet, unfortunately, that the Pro ramp is still a bit optimistic since these things almost always have a way of surprising you as you ramp up production. Also, I think there were more than the average number of orders on the first day which I think would also generally make your estimates optimistic until the end. It’ll be interesting to see how it turns out. Hopefully more folks will enter their info on the crowdsource sheet. It’s a fun diversion while we wait anyway.

[kittski]

@lcronkite

Let me tell you my story: I was 84 when I order my Pro and figured I would have it for my 85th birthday . I now see that I won’t even get it for my 86th in July. I

Rock on Icronkite
Personally, I think anyone over the age of 80 should have their shipping put at the very front of the line. Hell, I’d be willing to set back my own shipping a few weeks if it’d help.

Oh yeah, my Momma is 84 and cute as hell if you’re ever in CA Icronkite.

[lgibson]

As a customer of your product I want to know if my money is in significant jeopardy of being lost. As you continue to delay orders and offer additional incentives to stay, that adds up in cost. Can you as a company offer any financial evidence and or guidance that you could sustain your business model? I want the product and not a refund, but on the other hand I don’t want to lose my money.

At this point I am left to believe that some people are being treated with preferred shipment priority beyond order date. For example I understand forum status may increase or decrease when you will get your product. Can you confirm this? Are there any other factors that may influence the delivery date (besides model type / air filter combination / international orders)?