Discussion of March '17 update

Hi BDM,

We are completely with you on this point. This is not disappointment, this is UNACCEPTABLE.

Shipping to Europe one way costs me around $1000,- so back and forth around $2000,- plus the $500,- of the tube replacement, which takes them minutes not hours like Dan says.

Pfff, don’t even know what to say at this moment. Spending around $2500,- for a new tube and a serious amount of time we cannot use our machine is something a small business cannot overcome. It’s half of the price of a new Glowforge.

And just like you and probably many others on the forum, we can definitely do this ourselves, we are makers by heart, engineers and I think our business cards should even say “multi talented problem solvers” we can learn this in a heartbeat.

Maybe setup hubs in every country where tubes can be replaced if they want to really become a global company. Because I think if Glowforge doesn’t solve this, many if not all international buyers will cancel their order and they can forget about a global brand.

Wow…I need to come down after this news and rant, I’m sorry!

Will keep myself up to date with the forum but this “small” part of the March update will definitely keep people going quite some time.

Greetings from The Netherlands,

Elwin

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@dan,
Thanks for the update but man, the u-turn on the shipment order and the tube thing hurts. I seem to recall that you had confirmed many times that shipping will be first-come-first serve basis. For folk who have been waiting 18 months for the product this kinda adds injury to insult.

To ship a Glowforge to my country (according to your rates) is $1684 currently… Are you saying to me that if the tube needs replacement, the following will be my bill?
My shipping to you: $1684
Tube cost: $500
You shipping back my Glowforge: $1684
Total: $3868
Plus import duty on the tube only hopefully(?)

That hurts a lot. We should we just take it on the chin I suppose.

Not only that but if the tube goes in the warrantee period Glowforge will have to foot that huge bill.
Does not make sense for us. Does not make sense for you.

Is your lawyer letting the dog wag the tale here perhaps? You should SOLVE the technical challenge surrounding the safe end-user tube replacement.

That’s my 2 cents…

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Poor argument. My Jeep costs about $36K new. If it brakes I don’t have to send THE WHOLE THING back to the US. I get the tires locally. The wheels. A whole new engine if I want. Same with our HP server. Our air conditioning unit. I could go on.

There are at least two additional models that GF could explore.

  1. Local support centres (typically they are also distribution centres)
  2. They could allow end-user replacement and DESIGN for safe and simple replacement. Our wide Canon printer (A1) costs about as much as a GF. We have had to replace the printhead (about $350) twice. Did we send the whole thing in? No. We buy the printhead and install it, following the instructions which are simple. The installation is simple too because it is designed that way.

There are countless other examples.

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glowforge community is on fire.

so am i. from france, this update lights me about 'what could be done if there is a problem?'
My groupie state of mind has suddenly crash on earth and it hurts much more than previous delays issues.

I m quite sure that dan and gf team are at this moment in bigreunion to find how to solve this because, otherwhise, it could be an avalanche of cancels which could contain mine unfortunately.
maybe i m a dreamer but local authorized people or company which could provide technical repair and maybe sell proofgrade materials seems to me a better solution. but i don t know complexity to do that.

Today, my heart bleeds and my dreams vacillate. for the first time, i consider cancelling as a real option.

But I keep faith that ansolution can be found.

i don t want to be in dan’s shoes today. Hope to have better news soon.

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Hi All,

My thoughts on the tube thing wander on…

If Glowforge doesn’t solve the issue of the tube replacement with a cost effective kit to their users, don’t we all think China is going to step in with an amazing kit available on Aliexpress.com

It’s one way or the other Glowforge, seriously this news gave my day some dark dark clouds.

I can’t even read the other news in the update, which was very positive and constructive, wonder how this will evolve over the next days/weeks…

Keep hoping & dreaming Glowfolk!
Elwin

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So just a clarification because of the tube replacement issues. The life of the tube is 2 years UNDER LIGHT USE and less if used more heavily. That’s a lot of down time every other year (or sooner) if you need to ship the unit in.

That’s a big deal…

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I can understand the liability purposes of not having the customer trying to replace the tube. If something goes wrong replacing the tube and it ruins the machine you don’t want to be responsible. It is a bummer but it does make sense.

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I also agree the tube replacement issue is huge. Having said that, is it not reasonable to think there will be replacement tutorials on YouTube, reddit, this forum etc. eventually. There are always people willing to try, myself included, who will gladly share their experiences. I’m sure there would also be a way to get an aftermarket tube (more power/cheaper?) after the warranty is done. My understanding is this has been a very modular design with different parts easily upgraded. I can’t imagine there won’t be easy fixes/swaps done by regular janes/joes in the not too distant future. I simply can’t believe this community won’t find a way around this if it isn’t solved by the company for whatever reason.

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There’s no guarantee that we’ll be able to do this, or even fit a non-glowforge tube inside. I mean, I really hope so - but, no guarantee.

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The problem is the tube is a custom design commissioned by Glowforge. Unless we can buy that tube, or an equivalent to the same specification, the machine won’t work as well after a DIY replacement. If it used a standard tube it wouldn’t be an issue at all as we can buy those for £100 from China.

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For the technically savvy it all depends on whether the tubes will be available from a reputable third source. These are custom tubes. GF could conceivably lock down the supply chain.

For the non technical it depends on whether a system of formal or informal repair locations are available. And of course repair people need to be paid too.

Everyone might have extended down times for repair. And the tube replacement costs even for U.S. customers may have just increased. The under $500 statement says nothing about domestic shipping one or both ways.

Too little info.

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No, it really doesn’t make sense. You can have a waiver or do it as an out of warranty item. This is not something any of the other laser manufacturers in the world have you do.

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You forget that this is a custom tube - Not something that you’ll find for other lasers out in the market and in a generic form. You assume that GF will actuall sell you that as a part, which based on the current discussions it does not look like it would be even available, so you are stuck with sending your machine back or buying something else when that tube expires.

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Exactly.
Software lock-in.
Hardware lock-in.
Land-locked in…

I need some milk.

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Giggle of the day, needed that.

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Outstanding!! Thanks for the exiting update!

I’ll throw out my view that even having “certified techs” or regional repair facilities is not a good option (only slightly better than shipping back to glowforge. Every extra person you put between the product and the end user increases the price. Sure Glowforge can provide the tube for sub $500, but how is the tech going to get paid for time, mileage and expertise? The price just went up dramatically. Hopefully, this is just a case of pre-launch jitters and something that sounded better in the boardroom than it does in real life and can be corrected (like say Xbox one’s original no-share, no used games stupidity). I know the main target demographic is the unskilled, untechnical, but I can say even my 70-year-old mother would balk at having to pack the thing up and send it back just to get a consumable replaced. She would much rather bug me and make me do it. If I wasn’t available and she had the choice of doing it herself or send it back then she would send it back, but don’t remove options just because of feared liability when that liability is already an industry standard. As simple and user-friendly as you are making this wonderful product, in the end, it is still a laser and will have to be treated as one.

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The tube is estimated to last two year based on what? Heavy use, 10 hours a day? Light use and someone uses it 1-2 hours most days? Or it just dies at the end of two years?

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Please… Look at what everybody’s saying. Do your customers the small honor of addressing this as the top priority of the company.

Then just make it safe. “Hard” I can accept.

You don’t. Many, if not most, customers need to know this before their unit has shipped. I assure you, this not a trivial matter.

I suggest this is a higher priority. Everybody press pause. Spend the day discussing this issue and come up with answers.

Additional:
I’m a US user. I definitely feel badly for my international counterparts. But this is huge for US users as well. This thing is unwieldy and heavy. To even move it from one room to another will require quite an effort. To, what… save all of the boxes (in, I suppose, my unlimited storage facility where I can afford to store all of the empty boxes for everything I buy), prep my Glowforge for shipping, box it up, ship it (at my expense?!), be without it for weeks, and then receive and unbox all over again. Did I get it all?

This is HUGE for ALL OF US it seems.

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I agree 100%

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