Discussion of March '17 update

[jamesdhatch]

@laird

If their hardware doesn’t support users replacing the laser tubes in the field, they can’t fix that later - those units will have to be shipped to GF (or a hypothetical future service center) every year or two forever

Or when you send it back they retrofit it with the new cartridge tube/optics/cooling all-in-one replaceable unit. Goes back once.

Like when they corrected the lens aberration on the Hubble.

[jeremiah]

I was just thinking along the same lines. Mail in your Glowforge, and they update the machine, clean it, maybe put two lasers in it, maybe a rotary device, and send it back, better than new!

[rpegg]

Read Here:

Update to the update: We'll sell replacement tubes

Thank you for the clear and thoughtful feedback about our the importance of tube replacement for the community. I heard you loud and clear, and have spent the day with the team discussing what we can do for you. As a result, we’re changing our plan. If your tube needs replacement, you’ll have two options: We will sell replacement tubes so a Glowforge unit can be replaced without shipping it anywhere (price to be announced before we ship). We’ll replace the tube for you. This is free wh…

[brandtmeister]

@brian1

My guess would be that lawyers only recently reviewed it in the context of a recently written manual.

Bad planning on their side does not constitute an emergency on my side (or a bad deal that this is starting to turn into). If it’s true that they have not assessed the liability concerns until now for user replaceable tubes (while it is standard for every other laser company), there is some major fear of something else not disclosed or some major incompetence.

[brandtmeister]

Goodie goodie
Now why they could not have thought of this before the update?

[ericinkandthread]

@jeremiah

I was just thinking along the same lines. Mail in your Glowforge, and they update the machine, clean it, maybe put two lasers in it, maybe a rotary device, and send it back, better than new!

I like the way this guy thinks

[Tex99]

I agree with all the sentiments express here regarding the tube replacement. Very disappointing. I really hoped that we had heard the last of huge delays/changes - I guess from past experience until the units start shipping we can not rule out further significant issues and last minute changes.

A plan for how the replacement tubes will be handled should be the highest priority (for International and US customers) - GF then has 12 months (but maybe less) to implement that plan. But a plan is required ASAP to communicate to customers before they agree to take delivery (or cancel).

In my day job I conduct analysis of vendor offers on the basis of a 5 year TCO (Total Cost of Ownership). If I were to consider this for the GF with two replacement tubes plus delivery to/from Australia, then I believe it would be far cheaper to purchase a professional laser from a well know (and locally supported vendor) eg Epilog or Trotec. It appears some of the GF ease of use might be lost, but at least I would have a system that is proven and locally supported. This TCO concern might even apply to some US customers.

With regards why the change, it potentially comes down to two issues: either technically is difficult or the lawyers are concerned about the reliability. @dan has already said that they have come up with a smart design to make replacement easy (and it would have a been an issue earlier if not). So, it appears from this and other communications (eg settings for non-proofgrade materials) that the lawyers at GF are really influencing the product.

From experience, I believe GF should be tasking the lawyers with helping to solve the problem, rather than letting them simply say why something cant be done…

And yes, before I get the replies, I know I can cancel (I am considering).

[rpegg]

Apparently you didn’t see that they have changed the Tube policy? There was a new announcement maybe 30 minutes ago.

Update to the update: We'll sell replacement tubes

Discussion here: Update to the update: We'll sell replacement tubes (discussion)

[Drea]

@volivaa

I care about my GF brothers and sisters in far away lands and here as well. Make them part of the solution.

I was OOL when I read this, and was really trying to stay quiet until we got more info … but I bookmarked your comment JUST so that I could come back and like it once I was able to! Kudos to you for staying positive in the midst of so much stress, and for having - and fostering - such a strong sense of community.

[Tex99]

The Tubes potentially need to be shipped back to that they can sort out the calibration to ensure all the fancy features matched against Proofgrade material operate correctly.

This means without correct set-up you can kiss goodbye to all the convenience of Proofgrade materials as potentially there is no way to guarantee the power, etc.

Replacement tubes from a third party are a dream for this reason too, plus they are custom design with GF IP anyway.

[wildingwoodworks]

That’s a great point about the calibration. I could be totally out there but didn’t GF develop more or less an automatic calibration using the cameras? Would this be something that could be used to calibrate the printer for the tube? (Honest question for anyone out there, I really want to know!)

[Tex99]

So sad, but probably true. For me it was an interest rather than a business.

It appears that we are not yet ready for a laser cutter in the home, rather than workshop.

I believe this change will severely hamper GF’s ambitions for a mass roll out. Then again, maybe all they care about is the US.

[millersw.628]

Didn’t you read the update to the update?

[Brandon_R]

Reminds me of the John Deere lawsuits. Hopefully they can take a page from auto law.

[Duality]

@volivaa

I care about my GF brothers and sisters in far away lands and here as well. Make them part of the solution.

I appreciate this a lot. And it seems like you care more about including us internationals than GF does.

This is a PR mistake I saw with GF that I hope we never make as a small company going forward. The world is a big place (and a small one).

[Tex99]

Have only just go to the bottom of this 300 thread post!!!

My original post was 3 hours ago…

[BarryH]

After defending the post by @bdm which was sadly flagged, I must now defend the post by @zaplocked which seems to have been flagged in retaliation. I would be a hypocrite if I didn’t.

Can I please ask the community that unless a post is flagrantly offensive or argumentatively repetitive to ignore and skip over the content. If you are vexed by a specific user, you have the option in your settings to privately mute them.

Please, we have a great community, and it would be sad to have flag/flame wars.

[palmercr]

It was flagrantly offensive and a personal attack in my opinion. Did you read it? Whereas I couldn’t see anything wrong with bdm’s post.

[bridget]

Agree 100%.

[jrnelson]

so i complained about that and was informed that bdm’s post was inappropriate because he changed the content of a message in a quote. i disagree with that kind of correction but it’s not my forum.

that said, zaplocked used language that the forum doesn’t support, so probably should have been flagged.