Actually, I was asking for a distinction between the observed āshippingā versus actually being delivered. Tom seems to be answering my question about whether we should just expect the observed shipping, by most people here on the forum, which as I detailed out, an email sent by Oct 31st, with delivery time several weeks after that or actually delivered and in our hands by Oct 31st. Iām sorry if that was not clear. Tom seems to have answered that they are working to have them delivered by that date, Oct 31st. With another observed delivery time since this question was asked of six weeks to Texas, see the delivery date of ProForgeOne to Texas I extrapolated that Sept 19th is the six week point to Oct 31st.
I asked for confirmation on this point. Never got any.
I apologize - what was the unanswered question?
Long time lurker, but the tone of this discussion has struck a nerve and I feel I need to post. As a mid-October 2015 PRO pre-order I am on the edge of my seat with every update, I ordered about the time I knew my wife and I were having twins. I immediately started making plans for unique stuff for my boys, my wife, and parents and shared them with family. The Birth came and went, holidays, even first birthday and we are still waiting. Yea it sucks to wait. With the delays, I stopped even telling my wife about ideas because I get tired of the snide comments.
But I am also a business ownerā¦ (software/hardware company). I write code, I lead other coders, I work with lawyers, marketing people, etcā¦ The single most difficult thing we face is predicting how long things will take, and forecasting development times.
Having been in the exact same place as @dan, its not easy to tell people the schedule has slipped. I never enjoy those meetings with clients, investors, media, etcā¦ While I wish it was sooner, I completely understand the delays because Glowforge has been exceptionally open in their communication. More open and honest than their legal counsel probably likes (on a public website). Big and small problems have always been explained when the delay is announced, and that is a sign of a professional team. (FYI I am really glad they changed their manufacturing to the US, even if it cost a lot of time, it was a good decision.)
My team has decades of experience in our field, but still forecasting production is never perfect. For repeat projects, its sometimes easier to forecast as we have experience to call on, but even then systems change, regulations change and dates get pushed (our industry seems to be regulated by ego driven blowhards who donāt know much except how to write a press release).
If it was easy, someone would have already done it! - unknown
If the project is unique, its impossible to predict development. You just donāt know the things you donāt know, and could not have known until you get to that point in development. The only thing you really can count on is āwhatever date you pick will be wrongā.
Glowforge is truly revolutionary, a consumer level device with āfrikin laser beamsā (/end Dr. evil voice) that can, burn, cut, slice stuff!!! I am sure Dan could spend a month listing all the things they wish they had known when they started.
People complain, āyou had to know it was going to slip, why didnāt you tell us earlierā. Yea, I wish I knew earlier, I would not have said stuff to my family and made promises for holidays and birthdays. But learning that there is a problem, is not the same as knowing how long it will take to fix it. Glowforge was wise to wait until they had their head around a problem and could estimate how long the delay would be before talking publicly.
Foresight is never 20/20, hindsight always is. Even the best people make mistakes, forget things, make plans that donāt work. Professionals own up to them, take responsibility, and provide a plan of action to fix it. Glowforge always gave us an idea of the problem they faced, and how long they thought it would take to fix. They are professionals.
Yes, delays suck, but I have never lost confidence that I would get my machine, and that my money was put to good use, because at each step I knew why they made the decision to push the date. And because of these details on the delay I have never lost confidence that once I have my machine, its going to be quality (and worth the wait).
While some in the community are disappointed, frustrated, even angry; I understand, even sympathize (as I would guess many at GlowForge share similar feelings, they want to ship too). We all made plans for our Glowforge and cannot wait to get our hands on it. But lets take a moment and thank the Team at Glowforge, its been a long slog. Longer than anyone thought, with more trials and tribulations than anyone expected.
But now units are shipping, they are working, and they are getting better every day, and soon all of us will have our own box with āFrikinā laser beamsā on our desks/shops. This is a great accomplishment.
I may not have walked in their shoes, but I have walked down the same road. A hat tip to you, @dan and the rest of the Glowforge team. Through it all you have been professionals. Thank you.
PS - For your next product, what do you think of āsharks with frikinā laser beamsā, GlowShark, that would be really cool!
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I asked this question earlier in the thread. [quote=āmad_macs, post:81, topic:10347, full:trueā]
Are we still on this schedule?
@dan āWeāre working to have them all delivered by that date - although international customers have a higher chance of us missing our date.ā
Oct 31 is All preorders; āShippingā (Golden ticket email sent), āShippingā(in the hands of the punishers aka UPS) or āDeliveredā(in the hands of the owner)?
[/quote]
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Welcome to the forum @twineagles, very nicely explained. 
Congratulations on the birth of your boys! I imagine they are keeping you pretty busy. (Thereās a thread on babies born during the hiatus here, if you want to show off a picture or two. Glowparents )
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Welcome, and great first post! A voice of reason rooted in experience.
It has been my observation across life that people tend to anger when they perceive a loss of controlā¦ As if we ever had that much. 
I have been as disappointed as anyone over the projected evolution of this project, but assigning personal guilt over an inability to accurately predict the future is a symptom of the perceived loss of control - needing to find the cause and assign blame for it to justify our feelings.
Here on Earth we put that little piece of rubber on the end of a pencil for a good reason. 
Bingo.
Congratulations on your growing family!!
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I donāt know about you, but Iām really looking forward to the bookā¦some of the staff have alluded to some very entertaining bon mots and stories. 
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You are free to see it this way but a lot of people are not angry because they have no control. They are angry because they are continually kept in the dark. That isnt so much a matter of an āinability to planā, although I believe an argument for that could be made, but rather a matter of choice on communication
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Did the August update go out via email? I have gotten the last few months via email, but never saw this one. (I read it here within a few minutes of posting, but I didnāt get it on email).
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I understand, although when I signed on as I recall there was not any stipulation that every detail of the company plan was to be part of that privilege.
Like others I was surprised by the choice of when to announce a six month delay (twice) subsequent to everything being on schedule, but I have no appreciation for the logistics and complications the company was confronted with, so I am left with only my gratitude for being offered a remarkable tool for a greatly reduced price. For that, I can easily forgive how glowforge chooses to communicate or what details are divulged when.
My experience with the machine thus far only reenforces my faith in the company, and my gratitude for being able to participate in this venture at all.
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This seems ridiculous to me but I guess thatās just me. I donāt recall ANY company, that Ive personally dealt with, EVER explicitly divulging the exact way in which they will give me updates or delay announcements. Nevertheless, I dont think its an unreasonable ask, to assume that a company should (and most companies do) give updates that allow the customer to understand where their order stands. Especially when there are egregious delays.
Thats fine if that is your position. Itās a personal decision and itās a completely subjective one. Ive dealt with many startups in the past, and while theyāre were many stumbles with some of them, they were still able to deliver in a timely manner. They didnāt over-promise on timelines and they didnāt keep me in the dark. I would never be able to get away with that, with any my customers. So personally, I disagree.
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No email. GF usually reserves those for major announcements like Production delays, or some day āAll pre-orders shippedā.
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Ok, thanks!
I guess getting some of the past ones made me think that was normal operations.
Apologies, I thought I answered this - yes. You can always see the current schedule at Glowforge - the 3D laser printer. Our goal is for everyone to have them in their hands at the end of October (or November, or December, depending on order).
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It depends.
We deliver major updates via email. Monthly updates are posted in the forum, but if you followed these instructions you will also receive them by email.
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Iām not, nor have I ever felt angry about this. I understand development cycles and delays, and I think most people who are interested in buying a product of this sort have some experience working for or with a tech company. This isnāt foreign territory and I never expected them to meet their original schedule. In the kickstarter world, I would guess that less than 5% of tangible products deliver on time. Iām not asking for anything beyond some basic information that should be very easy to calculate. What percentage of the preorders have shipped? If you arenāt sharing the metrics of your progress, then Iām left to assume that you are behind schedule. Iām not asking to be a downer or because Iām unhappy. Iām still super excited for it to come in Oct, or next year, etc. I appreciate the communications they do send out about all of the changes and improvements. I would much rather have a better machine later. I can wait. I just value setting open and honest expectations.
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My apologies. I was asking for clarification on what you had said earlier.
I was asking if by āDeliveryā you meant:
-
Everyone who preordered would have a shipping notification, in this case the latest any preorders would be in the hands of the owners would be Dec 12. As near as I can tell thatās 6 weeks after the 31st.
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Everyone who preordered, would have Shipping information with UPS tracking by October 31st., with their packages being gently loved by the carriers.
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Everyone who preordered, would be enjoying their Lasers in the comfort of their own homes on Oct 31.
The current schedule says. "your Glowforge may arrive any time between now and October 31st. This would indicate that option #3 is what you meant.
We all understand international orders may have other results and schedules. I was not asking for clarification in international shipping.
So which of the three fits the definition of delivery?
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The curious thing is that I am part of a number of crowd funding matters. If I compare Glowforge to any of the rest, @dan has been at least as communicative as any of the rest, and more than most. Most of them I am just taking on faith that they will eventually be completed (including 3 where my shipping information has already been collected), and most communicate much less than Glowforge.
I think most of the major releases have to be reviewed by @staff and lawyers. This update still leaves me optimistic of likely receiving mine on the currently published timeline. It also leaves me confident that if my Glowforge is delayed from that, I will receive even more in compensation AND a unit that is that much better for the delay. It would really be nice to receive mine in time to make stuff for Christmas, but I will be happy even if I donāt get my forge AND filter until January or February.
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Thatās a totally fair point. They are much better at communicating than most of the kickstarter campaigns Iāve been a part of. I donāt fault them for delays at all, because Iām sure that more often than not, the delays are in my best interest and beyond their control. Whatever, it is what it is. I suppose they share whatever information they see fit to and thatās their business.
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