That’s great for warranty service, in the few months you’re given. But the elephant in the room is that if I send my Basic back for out-of-warranty tube replacement maintenance at $500, and UPS trashes the box on the return trip to the point that it’s unusable for Glowforge to return it to me, Glowforge is going to add another $250 to the bill for a replacement box in order to return my serviced unit.
Let that sink in for a moment: $750 dollars to get your tube replaced.
For those with limited storage, it is a factor that they will have to contend with.
But the same could be said with just about anything that a manufacturer or vendor says about warranty replacements and service. If you had an Epilog and it needed to be sent back (with or without warranty coverage), you would be out of pocket at least $200 (if you could scrape up materials for free and box it up yourself).
Throwing out the box needs to be seen as through out $250.
Optimistically there might be local service in the same city, or if there’s on-site service. But if anything has been proven by the shipping posts, couriers will destroy a box regardless of the amount of distance traveled - even in the same state.
The chance of destroying the GF seems quite high so adding two more trips seems very dodgy. And insuring a used product also seems like it might be an issue if you had to claim. You probably don’t get the full new price, especially now it has gone up.
Scenario 2:
GF → Customer: box survives.
Customer → GF tube service: box survives.
GF → Customer: Tube replaced, box destroyed. …and if another tube replacement is needed, it needs a $250 box for return to GF.
People need to accept that a tube replacement service fee is going to cost $750. Maybe not on the first replacement, but practically guaranteed by the second.
Do you know when they said that? I don’t remember that and I’m interested in the full story & context. I’m pretty sure it would run afoul of Magnuson-Moss. I’m interested in how they phrased it to get around M-M.
In fairness – and I appreciate that this will likely cause all sorts of flagging of posts to occur – Glowforge has not articulated the full details of their tube replacement service. I would greatly appreciate it if @dan or @rita take the opportunity to step forward to clarify the details. A simple clarification of whether the box is included in the tube replacement service should clear this up.
oh. You were so definitive and are usually careful to point out when you’re opining I figured I must have missed a post (it’s been busy around here lately )
I cannot remember where, but that “unusable shipping box” scenario came up some.
I think that documenting a trashed shipping box (with Glowforge Support) will get a functional replacement from Glowforge without cost.
UPS is just destroying these things with too great of a frequency that Glowforge can ignore or place the responsibility on the customer. Documenting the damages from UPS will be the responsibility of the customer though.
That would be more consistent with Magnuson-Moss (& a few other federal warranty and interstate commerce laws). Or allow you to use your own box of “like kind & quality” without suffering loss of warranty. A Pelican or hard side case or even a double-walled high strength cardboard with straps and their foam inside would certainly pass the like kind & quality test.
No, sorry, that’s on me. It is, of course, just my opinion until it’s confirmed.
I WISH that I had a posting that I could cite more detail on it. But given GF’s elusive policies, it’s what they don’t say that’s as important as what they do. I’d be elated to be told I’m completely wrong regarding their intentions.
These are all responses based on warranty coverage.
But they do not detail out of warranty tube replacement (“OOWTR”).
You could use a Pelican case to return it for OOWTR, sure. And they could have a clause that says “we are not obligated to return serviced units in the same packaging” as part of the OOWTR agreement.
So what happens if your expensive Pelican case is lost or severely damaged? Glowforge won’t reimburse that, nor should they.
But it’s for that reason they shouldn’t be on the hook of replacing it (and legally putting the clause in) that also means “if we receive your unit for OOWTR and the packaging is unusable, we’re going to bill you for a new box.”
Just a quick note on smell: the Glowforge comes with a pair of spring clamps for the ducting. I found that even when placed properly, it would deform into an oval and not seal tightly. If you smell anything at all while it is working, there may be a poor seal. I know people have mentioned this before up thread, but I just wanted to emphasize it. I went a few days thinking that’s just how it is, not knowing what to expect. Put your hand back there while the fans are on and see if there is any detectable breeze.
I bought a $1.50 4" worm gear clamp from home depot and it makes for a much better seal.
So in the case of warranty repairs they are obligated to provide the replacement box if the one they supplied cannot survive shipping. Or they must allow you to supply your own without affecting warranty status (like kind & quality - can’t just shove it into any old thing). That’s basic federal warranty law (M-M 1975).
For non-warranty work, two things would come into play. Upon accepting the shipment in your box to do work for which you are paying they assume fiduciary responsibility for the really expensive box you sent it in if they don’t offer a reasonable alternative (and the 50% of the cost of the repair accruing to the cost of their box likely would not pass the “reasonable” standard). So they need to treat your box nicely and ship it back to you assuming proper postage is provided by you.
The gray area is what if they refuse to fix your laser and thus do not assume the fiduciary care requirement of the service contract (which has to be explicitly denied by both parties in advance to be a valid defense not to take care), then what happens to a machine that can only be repaired (tube replaced) by them. That’s where the variety of state laws and the UCC come in. There’s going to be a merchantability factor to be considered for the box they sold you (originally in the purchase price of the machine & later if you bought a replacement). They’d have to argue the box is not intended to survive multiple trips to be able to charge you for a replacement but then they’d have to explicitly state that to be the case because anyone buying a $250 box would make a natural and defensible assumption that such a box, custom made per order of GF and designed to ship their machine, including returns for service must be able to make multiple trips using common carriers.
So, absent some really obvious language to the contrary, they need to be very explicit. Without that explicit language, the rights of the customer prevail and they won’t be just charging you for a $250 box add-on to your $500 tube replacement.
None of which I expect they’ve given a second thought to since the box condition issue is relatively new to them (just the past several months) and they’re looking at 2019 before they need to worry about out of warranty repairs or replacements.
If anyone responds my bet is “we haven’t finalized the details of the program yet but will consider your concerns and provide more information later.”
I used CAD and Corel paint shop pro extensively before the glowforge. I quickly learned neither would really work. I got Corel draw and within a couple days, I could make any file I need for the glowforge. Very intuitive software and affordable. I considered inkscape, but I’ve used Corel for years and thought it might be an easier transition. Haven’t looked into 3d design yet, but also don’t really need it. I just design in 2d for 3d objects. I highly recommend it.
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