I’m sorry you’re upset, and perhaps there is a language barrier issue here, but the word ‘scam’ in English asserts a deliberate attempt to dissemble or deceive - something I don’t think anyone can reasonably accuse GF of having done.
It was made very clear at the outset that the pre-order process meant units had not been finalized nor manufacturing arranged.
The delays are commensurate with the realities of manufacturing consumer devices with moving parts.
True … the correct word would be swindle then… and I know that was very clear when the pre-order process happened… but how many emails have we received with delays, delays, delays and more delays and now its not delays its the whole situation (which I had already really expressed my anger with the previous "we are sorry " email and to which the only thing I got was a “I’m sorry” from GF).
Business now and products are greatly risen or destroyed by their costumers not because the product was faulty or badly engineered, but because of the whole shopping experience they produce. Im sure GF’s marketing person knows a lot of this . We all for some reason have been incredibly LOYAL to the brand without ever getting a single product from them ( except from the ebook on christmas) but I must say that if they really want to become the leaders of this segment of the market they must really do something with their costumer care / shopper marketing/ wide shopping experience.
I help a lot of crowdfunded startups and projects here and in the EU and I have never seen that sort of distinction between “local and international costumers” they respect the place in line of the costumer.
All that whole “we need certifications and stuff”… well in my most humble opinion, they’ve had more than two years to sort that out, so when their production machines were out… they would not have to send yet another “we’re sorry we messed things up” again.
Has anyone looked at import procedures into Texas?
I’m sorry, but why are you still a customer if you feel this way?
No. It wouldn’t be.
Before you dedicated your money, you were told to review the Terms of Service. You were assured you could back out and receive your money at any point prior to receipt of the unit.
You can attempt to claim he was, perhaps, fraudulent… but even that term implies he was lying with conscious intent. If you have evidence he intentionally attempted to deceive anyone, great… let’s hear it! But you only have emotional outbursts by frustrated customers, which is NOT evidence… it’s only frustration.
Try asking for your money back. See how quickly it happens, and if it doesn’t happen quickly enough, then you can claim you’ve been swindled. THAT is evidence.
the word I was trying to translate apparently has no “direct” translation to english… my bad .
Basically because this feels more like an endurance test… like the last month before your baby is born… it feels just like that…
Don’t get me wrong, I really do hope you stick with it… Everyone wants you to enjoy your unit – the more the merrier, and everyone benefits from your success. I hope you don’t have regrets and can afford to hang on.
Many certifications require the finished machine before you can even start the process. I’m sure this applies to shipping restrictions on a number of international sources, too. I doubt that many of your startups and projects have involved a product quite so revolutionary or new as the Glowforge, and probably not one that has to jump quite so many regulatory hoops. I can easily believe that they started with many countries within getting a week of getting and order for that country to be told, “Come back when you have a finished production unit to ship”. I would also be absolutely shocked if they did not get interference from at least one government shipping the Glowforge to a specific country, if only for the Pro. It is kind of a wait and see, and a lot of restrictions and regulations cannot even be started on until the product is finished.
I work with real victims every day and NO ONE here is a “victim” of anything. Just go if you think you are being swindled. Seriously, you have every right to complain loudly about the new delays, but stop with the, “they are taking advantage of me” crap. If you can’t grasp and/or believe that getting certification and sorting out international shipping to 80 different countries for a large, sensitive piece of new equipment takes longer than sending it domestically, you should get your refund before it’s too late. The company is spending comparatively more time, money and effort trying to get international orders filled than they are meeting domestic orders. So if that’s not enough for you, give your money to another company and get a product that will make you happy. It’s just crazy to stand around and complain someone is ripping you off when you have every opportunity to walk away.
Stupid out of likes…we need more likes to pass around…
I am in agreement
This machine is absolutely worth the wait…
You mean life is not a puzzle where absolutely everything magically falls in place for 100 percent everybody? Perfectly? Every time? I need to do some serious introspection because I don’t know if I can deal
My humor out of the way, I would be seriously disappointed if this were a non US company and I had to wait, or I were an “International” purchaser and I had to wait, or I had to get a refund and I had to wait… recurring theme? If I had to wait. 
Couldn’t agree more.
Some people like to play the martyr.
As someone who gave serious thought to bailing after one or another delay announcement and my frustration with how they played out I ended up asking myself “Do I believe they’re lying or that they’re plowing new ground and simply don’t know what they don’t know?” And, “is there something else that will do what you hope this will do?” And finally I asked myself “is there anyone else suggesting they are working on something that will do what the GF is trying to do?”
That last one was a yes (to some extent) and we’ve seen how that one crashed and burned on launch.
If I were from one of the 80(!) countries where the cost of shipping renders the warranty valueless I’d have to decide if the promise of the GF was worth going without a warranty (or knowing that servicing it will cost a not insignificant portion of the price of the machine). Somewhere along the lines I’d expect I would have had to put on my big boy panties and decided to stay or to go and stop whining about the unfairness of the world and slandering someone I was going to have to rely on in the future.
I used to be a fairly vocal critic of Dan’s communication style (bad news is like fish - it doesn’t age well before it stinks). But I figured out that I’m not walking in his shoes so I don’t know what he has to wrestle with in terms of external drivers or controls. I also see enough parallels with similar decisions I have to make on a daily business and I’ve realized it’s my issue, not a true reflection of him and I admire his ability to weather the storms and go to work everyday to bring this to market.
I honestly believe no one is being deliberately deceptive but if someone does, I do believe they should take their money and run. If you continue to support someone you think is dishonest then you are only encouraging them and enabling them - you are now what you accuse them of as you sacrifice principle & morals for a shiny trinket.
Exactly this. ^^^
They are horrible, dishonest people!!! But I want what they have so I will keep company with them…
I believe the qualification is that it needs to be able to make passable BBQ.
We’ll need them to re-enable the low power engraving mode. Right now it’s running too hot for proper low&slow 'cue. 
Scam, swindle and fraud are not applicable words while you can still get your money back in these days of minimal bank interest.
The original marketing and all the updates except the last one (at this point) have been proved to be dishonest though. Deliberate deception, not naivety about how long things take. For example telling people at BAMF that production units were shipping and still saying all orders would ship before end of August.
Units were definitely not shipping then and does anybody seriously think at that point they didn’t know they were four months behind schedule? Production was supposed to be hundreds in February but only started in June. And did they suddenly realise this at the time of the June update? Of course not, they knew at the time of the show and waited until a few production units were delivered to deliver the bad news. Exactly the same as the last schedule update. They kept saying they were on track for December deliveries right until marmak3261 received the first PRU at the beginning of December.
This^^^
When they actually fill all the orders and implement all the missing features they will no longer need to try to hide how far behind they are. Then they might morph into an honest company at that point. But I doubt they will ever be open with any technical information about the machine. For example how is 1-100% mapped to wattage? We will have to work it all out ourselves.
As for international customers being at a disadvantage: yes very much so, but I can’t see how it could be otherwise with such a big heavy product requiring safety approvals. Of course I can get a big heavy machine from China for about the same as I am paying for shipping of the GF but somehow they have cheaper shipping and ignore approvals.
and it still won’t work as well without a number of upgrades, and at that point…
No but it puts the difference in shipping rates and concern for safety into sharp relief. How on earth can they ship a big heavy metal box from China to the UK and pay for the machine for less than it costs to ship the GF and its filter from the US?
Shipping costs are asymmetric.