At least it wasn’t full of eels…
We had another bear around this summer, but just a cub. It ran away as soon as it saw people. The one spring before last was really a bit too interested in those hairless bear making noises inside that big box.
(Apparently there’s a family somewhere in the nearby countryside, and when Mom kicks out the juveniles they wander around trying to find a new range.)
It’s an interesting problem and you won’t be the last to experience it. In fact in cold climates condesation might also occur on the outside of the unit (if it’s in a heated environment) on the glass, which will be chilled by the cold air coming through the vent.
Correctomondo.
I did not read all the posts here but it would be good practice to ensure the vent outlet is lower than the GF. If not, any condensate that forms inside the tube and does not evaporate would trickle down into the GF.
To me the best solution is to only connect the exhaust duct when the GF is in use. And when it’s not in use be sure to keep an appropriate seal on the exit opening. Just leaving the hose in place constantly in both humid and cold climates will create problems. Temperate climate people, rejoice!
And I was going to ask what wine do you serve with coral snakes.
Red. (Touch yellow - kill a fellow.) 
The condensation is a great post and use case that tests the Glowforge out. This issue is like the sound issue or the overheating issue. There are going to be operating environment parameters and there is going to be an envelope for these parameters. And people are going to fall inside and outside and all around these parameters.
I see two responsibilities at work here: purchasers need to perform their due diligence about these operating parameters and their consequences. They need to be prepared to work out a solution so that their operating environment falls within the envelope.
Glowforge has a responsibility to assist the purchasers in understanding and accommodating these operating parameters. On some issues there has been lots of testing and feedback and discussion on the forum by staff and owners regarding these issues. We had a very vigorous discussion regarding sound. Some people are surprised by the sound of the Glowforge. Others aren’t. Then it gets interesting in defining what is loud and what is Glowforge’s responsibility and what is the owner’s responsibility.
My first encounter with humidity and electronics were when I visited friends who live in the Caribbean. They were trying to decide if they were going to buy new sound equipment for their home because what they brought was ruined after two years. Then they learned about how to mitigate these issues or live with them.
I think the humidity issue deserves a little more direction from Glowforge in the support and preparation stage. Not just give operating parameters for humidity, but perhaps a little more assistance in setting up to avoid what happened to @JonS. Since the filter is being delayed, everyone has to use an external venting setup unless they get their own appropriate filter. The delay of the filter is on the Glowforge and is complicating the use of the Glowforge and causing scenarios that folks just didn’t even think about since the filter would have taken care of this.
Glowforge can’t give instructions to people on how to set up their venting if they plan to use it. It would be impossible, since every situation is going to be different. There are just too many variables.
If Glowforge was to say…“Hey, you can do this and it works” and someone in a different operating environment didn’t read it carefully enough, and they do it wrong or have some other issue that results from setting it up incorrectly for their environment and it ruins the machine, then they have a right to scream bloody murder at Glowforge, and expect a replacement machine.
From a customer standpoint though, there are benefits to hearing how someone else handled the problem, and that’s why they set up this Category. It’s so we can share information on what works and what doesn’t.
They won’t be giving us that kind of information, but they’ve given us a place to discuss it with our peers. Next best thing. 
Sure they can. They don’t have to say “do this, it works”. They can say “be aware that window venting in certain environments like x, y, and z may lead to condensation issues inside the machine. Here are some ways that may help mitigate the problem…” And it needs to be in the manual. Just relying on the forum when venting out a window is normal operation is not good. What are the odds that every buyer has the time to comb thousands of posts to make sure they haven’t missed something as vital as this?
Not asking them to offer solutions, just a heads up regarding use cases where abstract numbers about humidity levels become real experience. While I could imagine what would happen if I left the Glowforge vent connected and unblocked when it was 0 degrees F, I would not have thought about the humidity and condensation issues with leaving an open vent to the outside. Now it makes complete sense that operating environment doesn’t just mean the room the Glowforge is in, but the airflow connection with outdoors in this case because of the venting setup.
This event could have ruined the Glowforge just after one night and then fired up in the morning and kapow, circuits fried. So in that case, would it have not fallen under warranty because @JonS was operating out of the envelope?
I agree there are limits to what can be planned for, but there are also situations where foresight by Glowforge would head off some catastrophes.
There’s nothing wrong with them mentioning that certain environments can lead to condensation, but they can’t give recommendations on how to avoid those issues.
And what do you think the first thing people will ask is?
(I’m not trying to speak for Glowforge, if they want to include something about condensation in their manual they can, but it starts them on a slippery slope of having to provide even more support, and I really think they are going to have trouble providing support as it is.)
There wasn’t any damage to the machine from the condensation, it was just startling to see. (Since Seattle has a fairly high level of condensation potential as well, the machine might not even be affected by it.)
But I’ll flag @dan , even though this isn’t an area they monitor, so that he can relay everybody’s concerns and give their FNLs something to keep them busy. It’s possible that it could cause some problems and they didn’t think about it.
From my perspective, because I experienced it, I never expected (and I still don’t) 
to provide instructions on how to properly setup the vent.
But a warning about external humidity causing condensation in the would have made me stop and think about my implementation a little bit further. So I guess I agree with both of you in some ways.
I will say the current wording in the safety guide is no where near descriptive enough in regards to humidity. In this case it was external humidity that was extreme and outside the parameters, internal humidity was well within parameters.
@dan I am right there with most in saying that you guys have done a great job with this beautiful machine. However, if I hadn’t noticed the condensation, and just turned on the I’m fairly confident it would have ended badly for me. I’m glad I caught it, but I really think that something needs to be updated for future owners to avoid a catastrophe like this.
More importantly, pointing a user to acceptable humidity parameters in the safety guide, after something like this happens could be taken rather poorly. When you responded, I genuinely had a gut wrenching feeling hit me and instant fear that I just lost my and it wouldn’t be covered under warranty.
It all ended well for me, I’ve been laser cutting all day and getting ready for my next project. But I think we can all use this as a learning experience. Nothing more, nothing less.
Yeah, I wouldn’t have thought about it either and it’s something that’s already been an issue with our dryer at a previous house.
Since the temperature range refers to the interior temperature, I wouldn’t for a second have considered the humidity range didn’t also just refer to the interior humidity.
Side note, an I wrong in assuming that exterior humidity won’t be an issue if the machine is running? Because the exhaust is pushing air out, right, so there’s no extra humid air collecting in the hose?
no, that’s correct. which is why this should be mentioned in an official manual because op noted that the interior conditions fell within acceptable parameters.
suggesting otherwise means that someone with a vent should never use it when it rains because that’s equal to 100% humidity.
Is it? The rain falls from clouds that have reached 100% but I don’t think the air at ground level is at 100%.
I vent my 3D printers to the outside with 1" pipes in the UK and never get condensation coming down them, and it does rain a lot here! They are corrugated, so condensation would have a hard time flowing down them.
I don’t have AC though but my garage workshop is inside the house, so never gets below about 12C and internal humidity is generally 50-65%. The only place I see condensation is on the inside of our bedroom window in the winter mornings. The glass is a lot colder than the air in the room.
So in the UK I don’t think condensation is a problem because inside the house is never much cooler than the outside. On a hot summer days it will be a few degrees cooler but the rest of the time it it warmer inside.
not really, but it’s functionally similar, and i should have stressed the relative nature of such measurements. but certainly we can agree that it’s “quite wet” and shouldn’t be shrugged off so quickly by support.
The person seems to have a unique condition that no one else has encountered. A lot of outside air needed to flow in the vent to create that much condensation. Outside air of 100% humidity is not a problem by itself.
It’s was hot, humid, pouring down rain at my house yesterday. AC was cranking away trying to get rid of the humidity and lower the inside temps. I have had condensation on the inside of my windows. Zero problem.
The problem is that he has outside air coming in the exhaust hose. Can’t have that. Need a flap.
Also think it’s wrong to vent in a chimney, out a vent shared by another device, or even out a window without a flap or screen. There are a gazillion less than optimal ways to vent this device. GF can either give you one or two approved methods or tell you proper venting is up to the user. Can’t anticipate everything.
i don’t disagree with anything you’ve said here.
i just think it’s cavalier to go “oh this is unsupported conditions” and wash your hands of it. these are clearly not being operated in unsupported conditions since the user explicitly said that his home interior fell within accepted parameters. if it were super humid inside, too, i’d agree that this shouldn’t be covered. but these are designed to be used at home and vent outside via window or direct vent (not, e.g., via chimney) - that’s one of the officially supported uses and something like this should be given assistance.
note: i’m not suggesting that the company should support continued operation where this happens. i just don’t think it’s appropriate to go “unsupported” and move the support request to the forum labeled with a death warning.
Thought I would get far more of an argument from you. So we are closer to agreeing. It probably comes down to I have a lower expectation of personal attention from any customer support and am sometimes pleasantly surprised. I have little doubt that the unit would have been replaced and if more than a couple had similar problems the manual would be updated with guidelines or more legalese. But whether or not Support holds my hand for a problem that is no longer immediate probably has more to do with their workload than anything else.
maybe, but i don’t really consider this hand-holding. it would have taken all of five minutes to fire off some suggestions and a warning that operating the laser with condensation inside isn’t supported. i think they’re trying to walk a fine line between making this easy to use and absolving themselves of legal responsibility. edge cases like this will keep coming up, i suppose.
well, maybe if he hadn’t posted this thread.
by this logic every first problem should be ignored. unfortunately they just haven’t started shipping in sufficient quantities to start seeing these things.
i mean i agree i think this is an easily solvable problem. i’m not suggesting that a manufacturer should step in and support every facet of a user. but at the same time i think this could have been easily fixed with a little advice; the company clearly has enough time to spend on the forum and interact with users so i’m not convinced support bandwidth is the cause for the outcome.
Trust me, Dan was told to do so by the FNLs. He can’t offer suggestions. Like it or not, it’s the world we live in now.
I think a head’s up about making sure that you consider whether the humidity in your area is going to potentially cause condensation problems for your machine if you vent outside without a cap on the hose wouldn’t be amiss. And perhaps an up-front warning that such a condition, if it causes damage to the machine, would not be covered by replacement, so that it does reduce potential problems for some of the affected customers and forces them to actually think about what they are doing. (Glowforge can’t afford to keep replacing these machines for people - they didn’t get enough money from us.)
But they’ll probably make that call based on what the lawyers think they should do.
Anyway, it’s not up to us…we’ll just make sure they see what happened so they can decide what, if anything, they want to do about it. They know now, and they’re good people who want to see folks get functioning machines, so I’m sure they’re deciding on something.
i’m not suggesting dan himself offer suggestions outside of accepted operation.
i’m saying
a) dan is clearly mistaken when he says that this is operating outside of recommended parameters. it’s not. the customer has a house with correct humidity and is venting as recommended.
b.) i think this is a problem that may crop up and it should be given better treatment than simply “not our problem.”
of course. but i (perhaps obviously) disagree with the philosophy of not weighing in since the forum response has clearly changed their course in the past.