Thinking exactly the same, I know it can be a little bit frustrating to wait but as you say:[quote=“erin, post:73, topic:2666”]
wasn’t particularly interested in them, and I don’t need one.
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My first interest in laser machines was when I saw the Glowforge video since last year (yes the same we have already seen too many times ) maybe I can buy another brand but the price right now and the benefits are very good that I can be patient
Also in the same position as you, I live in a small apartment so i don’t have enough room to use a bigger machine or a laser machine which i have to install a cooling system.
So waiting doesn’t seem to bad for me. My only problem is just be excited every day and knowing I have to wait makes me feel as a child that know is almost Christmas but not yet
What is it you’re looking to get from owning a Glowforge? Seems like the standout features are the things that you don’t care about.
Oh, there’s the integrated cooling, that’s pretty unique to Glowforge (compared to other glass-tube laser cutters). Not something I’d wait a year to get, but I understand the appeal.
I’m guessing the material recognition isn’t too important to you, what with the ease that you have using calipers.
Well, I was looking for a working laser cutter! - mainly for those odd, small things that the routers aren’t capable of, marking leather, acrylic. The standout was a reliable machine, and I also liked the company philosophy, Dan’s approach, and I dig backing that.
However, as my shop grows, time waiting on a machine is time-a-wasting! And as time ticks on, my 2 days of tinkering with a 80W (still maybe 50w, but hey, still $1800 cheaper) Chinese cutter seems rather appealing.
@vhotho, it sounds like an imported laser might be right up your alley. I’d recommend starting with Gweike - they’re tremendously helpful, and willing to send lots of replacement parts when things go wrong, international freight, their expense.
My experience between an ~80w chinese laser and Glowforge Basic is that projects go about 4x as fast with the Glowforge. That’s a combination of hardware setup time, not having to test material settings, much shorter software import/configuration/settings, quicker alignment, etc. Plus the ~30% material loss due to wrong settings, wrong placement, etc goes away.
But if you’re just running the same job over and over again, the actual print runs about 50% faster with the more powerful laser, so it’s definitely good to consider.
Thanks for the insight. I’ll look into Gweike.
As far as cut speeds, I do plan on overshooting my wattage - intentionally to get more bang, and push those speeds with some basic motor tuning and calculations (Mach3).
As far as materials go, KISS with some samples, a notepad, then 4 minutes of input into the CAM software to have a pull-down menu of materials in your setup. Definitely not a 30% loss. Industry has been using CNC (routers, drag knives, the stupid dog tag maker at Wal-Mart)- If these had a 30% material loss, they’d be bankrupt.
I see where you are on the economics, but your calculations are kinda based on the “Brand-New Sticker Price MSRP” of a Chevy Malibu. You won’t be able to sell it for more than “New” from GF. Once you drive it off the lot, you lost that $700- so to speak.
I mean sure, there will be a few quick sales in the beginning, but once rev. 2 comes out the rev. 1 will drop like a brick in resale.
Not to mention, putting something to work NOW, as in- earning income. Workarounds and outsourcing are real costs to some people.
We’re all at different stages with this stuff, but as a still-learning CNC user, I’d say 30% almost conservative. I learned real fast that we don’t know what we don’t know until we’re in it. (granted, I’m not going to be breaking bits with a laser, so that’ll cut a lot of my problems right there )
That’s definitely a curve. Sure, you’ll screw up at first- but that goes way down once you know the machine and materials.
With a 30% loss on a vinyl cutter, that would be serious bucks. Aluminum milling is about 10x worse.
test on scraps for a 1/2 day and you have some real settings data.
Huh? That would be “ignoring” an investor.
And I’m not sure why, I said nothing offensive or derogatory. I merely state observations from my experience, which even you might find helpful. Listening to several sources of info is advantageous.
Not planning to turn around and sell it. I plan to use it. Nor am i planning to use it to generate income.
You missed the point.
If I want a laser (and I do) that does what this one is going to do, then I would either have to pay full price for it (not retail - the actual selling price) in a year and a half when they are available, or I can get in on the kickstarter and pay $700-$1200 less for the same machine.
That’s “couponing”…not resale for investment. The machine is not going to be available any sooner in either case. And in the meantime, they get to generate interest off of my money instead of me. (Big whoop… I’m out $1.75.)
If you plan to use the laser for a business, that’s a different story, and each individual needs to decide for himself/herself where that bail-out point is.
“If I’m going to have to sit without any income generated off of this thing for another four months, is it better to cancel the order and buy a cheap Chinese laser that is going to have more significant down time once I actually put it into production, or get a refund and buy a potentially more expensive locally grown model that is available for shipment immediately?”
“Or should I continue to outsource?”
Those are the questions you need to be asking yourself, because no one knows how much money you make off of your widgets except you. Take it into consideration, then make the decision for yourselves.
But one thing that everyone has to take into consideration is that complaining about delays is not going to speed up the creation and availability of the machines by one…single… minute.
Cancelling an order is not going to hurt Glowforge, nor will threatening to do so cause them to speed up production to accommodate us. They have our money set aside to give it back if we decide we don’t want to (or can’t) continue the order.
Decide for yourself what you want to do…then do it.
But since you are not using it for business, it no longer becomes an investment. It’s just an expense.
Your idea of ‘investment’, only works if the ‘invested item’ generates revenue.
And all good for saving a few bucks on getting in early- but that’s still retail price, not cost.
Please also remember that coupons and perceived savings are wonderful sales generators.
I’m just sharing my experience after producing about 100 sets of the laser edition of Robot Turtles, each of which included a few dozen parts in acrylic and plywood, working full time on it over the course of 2-3 months. Near the end, once everything was dialed in, about 30% of prints failed due to material irregularities, hardware glitches, software bugs, and various other sources. When I was first getting started, it was more like 80%-90% of prints failed. Note, however, that I was optimizing for “materials I wanted” versus “the best materials to use with a laser”. Had I done the latter, I’d estimate I would have had a 15% failure rate.
Not trying to scare you off; this works great for some folks. And if you’re running the same pattern every time, with no variation in alignment, no modification of the file, and so on, then more watts buys you shorter print time and it can be much more efficient.
And since it sounds like you want your laser quickly, you should cancel right now and place your order for your Chinese option ASAP! It took about 3 months to get mine through customs (normally just one, but there was some sort of slowdown that affected my shipment) so you need to get your place in the production line ASAP. Also remember that once it arrives, you need to budget time for them to ship you a few replacement parts, which take about the same time for it to arrive, for odds and ends that typically get damaged in shipping.
In my case, it was also an investment, since the money i used to purchase it was just sitting in an account, drawing very little interest.
By letting Glowforge hang on to the money for a few months, I gained some serious purchasing power. (My money went farther, which is kind of what the whole thing is about in the end, isn’t it?)
Not really. If it’s not earning income, it’s an expense on an object that depreciates. Its value is relative.
Your $5k expense becomes a Negative on year 2 since it has depreciated. Whereas, if you had invested that 5k, you’d earn, as opposed to an expendature
We all see things differently
The definition of investment depends on your perception. What has value to you.
I am in the fortunate position of not requiring this laser to make me money, but the learning experience and particularly the enjoyment of creative exploration hold great value for me. It is an investment in myself.
There have been many times in my life that the successful completion of an inspirational idea gave me a joy that money just can’t buy. To me, worth more than gold.
I agree. But the post I initially responded to referred to it as investment, with some referenced hocus-pocus wizardy along the lines of Credit Card interest.
) maybe I can buy another brand but the price right now and the benefits are very good that I can be patient 
)