Pro downgrade?

That is a good question!

So the upgraded laser (45w) wouldn’t constitute the Class shift? Maybe the power upgrade and the pass through combined? Hopefully @dan does respond. I am sure it’s been explained somewhere here…

Not by itself. There are 80W lasers that are Class 1. A raw unprotected laser is only Class 1 when 25 milliwatts or less. What makes a 40W laser cutter qualify as a Class 1 is because it’s enclosed such that harm to the operator cannot occur during normal use.

I think it’s the pass-thru which converts it to an “open” laser that causes the uptick to Class 4 (the most dangerous classification by the way). But all the ones I’ve seen with a pass-thru have large openings not the thin one the GF has. With a large opening laser reflection is far more possible than the GF. I don’t do laser certification so I’m not an expert, but I would think the combination of the minimal opening with an absorptive bed (and other internal parts) could be demonstrated to eliminate the possibility of escaping laser light in a dangerous collimated beam.

It may just be simpler for GF to accept a Class 4 rating than go to the trouble of proving design features that make an ostensibly Class 4 into a Class 1. After all most people won’t be impacted so the return on effort investment in trying for a Class 1 ratin might not be justified.

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Unfortunately class is assigned at manufacture time and can’t be end-user modified, IIRC.

No, it’s about the enclosure, not the laser itself.

If you’re planning schools and maker faire’s, go for the basic. It’ll serve you well!

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Is the Pro being tested at all? Are there safety precautions we can take when using the Pro?

Sorry for the wall of text, folks. I just didn’t know how to stop myself.

some general info hashed out in the past:

also

I think this one discusses cheap vs not-cheap safety glasses

also a good idea:

I’d reccomend reviewing those threads at least since my memory may be fuzzy at this point, and the fire extinguisher and safety glasses threads have good links in them.

Glowforge legaly won’t say anything about modifications to the Pro to make it as safe as the Basic but as the numerous warning do not look into laser with remaining good eye threads point out eyes that can see perfectly are a limited quantity on most readers of this forum. I surely won’t tell you to throw caution to the wind and different Jurisdictions/Countries/counties/provinces/municipalities/homes might have different safety restrictions. You’ll need to find out yours.

In the US https://www.osha.gov/dts/osta/otm/otm_iii/otm_iii_6.html
Excerpt relevant to basic:

Class I: cannot emit laser radiation at known hazard levels (typically continuous wave: cw 0.4 μW at visible wavelengths). Users of Class I laser products are generally exempt from radiation hazard controls during operation and maintenance (but not necessarily during service).

Since lasers are not classified on beam access during service, most Class I industrial lasers will consist of a higher class (high power) laser enclosed in a properly interlocked and labeled protective enclosure. In some cases, the enclosure may be a room (walk-in protective housing) which requires a means to prevent operation when operators are inside the room.
Excerpt on description for Pro:
Class IV: High power lasers (cw: 500 mW, pulsed: 10 J/cm2 or the diffuse reflection limit) are hazardous to view under any condition (directly or diffusely scattered) and are a potential fire hazard and a skin hazard. Significant controls are required of Class IV laser facilities.

Part of the Glowforge laser safety rating is it’s light frequency placement in infrared non-visible. So you won’t see it coming for you.

Personally following a boat load of restrictions I’ll do electrical work on my home without turning off the mains. I know I can’t see the electricity and have a very healthy respect that it can kill me. It’s not likely to be illegal in my area, but for most people it’s not smart(probably including me.) I’d never play around with the laser, it’s permanent damage invisible and just takes one bad reflection off a reflective surface. So warning signs/doors to protect others, and safety glasses for anyone near with my pro.

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Good approach. I actually wear my glasses with my K40 (Class 1) because I will at times run it with the top up as I align the mirrors or getting a piece of material right where I want it. I’m unwilling to suffer the damage of an errant reflection.

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Same - trying to get in the habit of putting them on before I power it up.

A kindred spirit!
Replaced all of the wall switches in the house and a half dozen light fixtures while the circuit was hot. For me getting hit by 110 is a minor annoyance, and serves as a sovereign reflex test… :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

From what I have read, the first indication from a laser to the eye is likely to be a “pop” you hear and feel as the fluid in your eye boils.
Hence the reason for the classifications, and why a class IV cannot be used in a public setting like a maker faire.

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Thank you @dan ,I was torn but want to be able to be more free with the GF and the basic I think will serve me better! Wondering when I downgrade if I will just get the refund based on the original preorder price or the current price.

That’s how I used to feel about it until I got one bad bite from an outlet that put me on the floor with some missing time and an ozone smell. Since then, I’ve been much more apt to throw the breaker first.

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Never found 110 to be that bad. Worked for years as a telephone tech. You do most of your work on live systems. Granted, normal Dial Tone (DT) is negligible on incoming phone lines…until a call comes in and you’re in a(usually) tiny and hot space making you a sweaty mess having to lean on the blocks and zzzt. Ringing Voltage comes through(110v - what tells the phone to ring and used to be the sole power source for old, non-message/wireless phones).
Now, a hot 220 lighting line sitting loose in a ceiling in a construction zone on your arm unexpectedly…that’ll give you a head-snaps-back-and-makes-you-hop-off-a-ladder-real-quick kind of feeling.

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I’d be very surprised if your K40 was a Class 1 laser device. The ones I’ve seen are definitely not compliant with any regulatory regime, US, EU, or otherwise.

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Being I’m from where I’m from and 240v is the standard line voltage I’ve found myself sitting down on the other side of the room a couple of times. :grimacing:

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:grinning: Seriously. I don’t think they actually bother with certification or maintain whatever build procedures got them the machine they used for testing if they did. But the machine meets the requirements of a Class 1 device as built. It’s fully enclosed and requires intentionally bypassing an interlock to fire the laser with the lid opened. (That’s why pass-thru machines won’t qualify as Class 1 because normal operation requires it to fire without the full enclosure being intact.)

I’ve added additional interlocks (theirs was a button in addition to the power that needs to be pressed before the laser will fire) with a lid switch that interrupts the power if the lid is raised and the same if the coolant isn’t flowing. Of course, just like my table saw, some of these guards are sometimes overridden by the operator :wink:

My K40 doesn’t have any type of auto shut off if the lid is opened. I can open the lid just fine while in opeeration without any stopping or disruption to the laser. Class 0 ? lol

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Or maybe no class at all?

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It should have a separate switch besides the power switch to enable the laser - if you don’t specifically hit the button, no laser. Not as foolproof as a lid interlock but sufficient. (The lid interlock isn’t foolproof either since you can always override it by taping it down or if it’s magnetic using a handheld magnet.)

The reason machines with a pass-thru are Class 4 is because operation as designed to be used (e.g. with the pass-thru door open) the operator is potentially exposed to errant reflected laser light through the open door. As designed to be used, the Chinese lasers contain the laser light in the machine so they’re Class 1. Otherwise you’re in very low power levels to allow a laser that is not contained in an enclosure that won’t mark or cut anything.

Whether they’re officially certified is a whole nother thing :smiley:They tend not to be big on expensive certification processes. A certification sticker is no guarantee it was actually evaluated by a certifying agency. I’ve heard tell that sometimes the labels are fake :scream:

Now we’re talking my kind of laser. :grin:[quote=“jamesdhatch, post:24, topic:2336”]
A certification sticker is no guarantee it was actually evaluated by a certifying agency. I’ve heard tell that sometimes the labels are fake
[/quote]

Reminds me of seeing sheets of DOT stickers for motorcycle helmets.

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isn’t that Mable the # 12 inspector ?