Pro Parts


#21

The top speed of a stepper motor is set by the supply voltage and the coil inductance. I wouldn’t count the PSU as key components of the linear system. The torque, and hence the acceleration, is set by the current and the efficiency of the motor. The current is under software control according to @scott.wiederhold.

If you don’t change the motor I can’t think of anything else in the linear system that would increase the top speed. A bigger pulley, but that would change the LPI and be an obvious visual difference. The belt has part numbers on so we could compare those, although I can’t see how that would affect the speed. The rails and wheels all look the same and don’t really affect speed.

So it looks to me that they haven’t actually upgraded anything and Dan has conveniently forgotten what key components have been upgraded.

I have paid a lot more for a pro partly because it has a better tube and optics. I am starting to doubt that is true. The only visual difference seems to be the slot and the Peltier cooling. Can anybody spot any other changes.


#22

The engineers ought to be woken up every now and then, for the good of the product.


#23

Has anybody actually seen the Peltier cooler in the pro (back left corner by the outlet fan)?

3C isn’t much difference, like 5W and 15% speed increase. I am wondering if these are all just a software switch in the cloud.

Would that be legal under US consumer law? I.e. advertise real hardware differences and fake them in software?


#24

If it wasn’t in this thread, Tesla has already been proven to do this with their battery packs in the cars. To help people get away from a hurricane in Florida, they gave a push update to let all Tesla cars go the “extra capacity” distance. Don’t think they’ve seen any trouble. It’s all in how it’s worded and we’ve seen how closely Gf listens to their FNLs.


#25

Yes.


#26

Depends. If the promise is of a particular implementation then that has to be delivered but if the promise is of an effect then how that effect is achieved is irrelevant.

Tesla is the latest example of this. They sell 2 models of their S - one has increased range & duration to the tune of $9000 (IIRC). They even talk about the battery pack rating being different between the 2 models. But they can (and did last month in FL) flip a software switch and all of the low-end models got extended range & duration with improved battery capacity without any change to the underlying batter pack. They had software-limited the battery capacity (actually what would be delivered to the car) so they could use the same pack in all the cars. People were paying the 9 grand not for a bigger battery pack but improved software and they did not say that - just sold increased duration and amphours.

If GF said there’s a Peltier cooler in the Pro then there needs to be a Peltier cooler. If they can figure out how to get the same effect without needing the Peltier then they might use the alternate instead. Since they offer your money back up until you take delivery US law would likely say no harm, no foul.

If they just sell the effect (improved cooling) and they can do that all via software, the physical implementation is irrelevant to consumer laws - you’re getting the improved cooling you bought. You don’t get to dictate how they achieve it.


#27

This is what the advert says:

Passthrough slot allows the use of material that’s up to 1/4″ (6.3mm) high, up to 20” (50.8cm) wide, and as long as desired
Passthrough software uses the camera to maintain alignment as long material is pushed through
Laser tube is upgraded from 40 watts to 45 watts
Higher quality optics provide for more beam power at the head
Faster cutting speeds
Upgraded solid state thermoelectric cooling
6 month additional warranty

Can anybody spot a difference in the tubes? It would be interesting to compare measurements of the outside diameter and pictures of the curly bit.

The windows, head mirror and lens are all the same. The only other optics are the first two mirrors that are fully enclosed in a metal box. Are they really any different?

The update said the Pro had upgraded key components of the motion system but it appears that the motors, pulleys, belts, wheels and rails are all the same so I am starting to smell a rat.


#29

I am asking it it exists. I will take your word for it. I think the upgraded linear components and optics are fake. I suspect the tube may be. Looks like the Peltier and the slots are real.

If they fake some things why not others? I don’t think I am an idiot for asking for proof given what has happened with the linear and optic upgrades. There are no visible differences.


#30

I thought I recalled Dan saying they were different tubes, but if they managed to get 45W out of the same tube, that would be okay in the US.

The same lenses and mirrors, but with tighter tolerances, would be higher quality optics. Or they could be different materials. But something should be different.

Faster cutting speeds comes with more power. If a basic can cut to X depth at speed Y, then the Pro will be able to do it at speed Y+n. They may have better hardware, but they wouldn’t have to. You’re allowed to point out the obvious in your marketing. The can of carbonated water I’m drinking right now lets you know it is gluten and lactose free.


#31

Yes Dan has said they are different tubes but he also promised they would release opensource firmware at launch and they haven’t. He also said the pro had upgraded motion parts but they have the same motors and pulleys as the basic. He said we would get our machines this month long after it was obvious we wouldn’t. So Dan does not speak the truth.

If basics are fitted with 45W tubes that are under driven then with opensource firmware we could hack up the power.

The windows, head mirror and lens are in the GF shop and there is only one type of each, so they can’t have higher tolerances on the pro or there would be pro specific versions for a higher price.

Please can someone post the basic / pro PG settings for say medium black acrylic cuts. They should be full power so the pro would need to go faster. The speed increase will gives us an idea of the delivered power difference. It should be more than 45/40.


#32

I was only providing my opinion on what they would have to do. Something needs to be different somewhere in the optical path or an activist state Attorney General could make it an issue for them. Unlikely (I have a similar attitude towards the enforcement of what minimal consumer protection laws exist over here), but always possible.

The cut settings for medium black acrylic from my pro is 163 speed, full power, 1 pass.


#33

Thanks.


#34

This is incorrect.


#35

Can you comment on if the tubes are the same (maybe 45 W on both, but underpowered for the basic)?


#36

The laser tube, optics, and linear system are all different between Pro and Basic. I just spoke to engineering to verify the details and more importantly see if we can share them. But in all three cases, there is some subtlety to the way we’ve designed it that provides for better performance, and we’d prefer not to divulge those differences to the folks who’d like to emulate them. For that reason, I’m going to defer on sharing which particular components are different and how we’ve improved them.


#37

Regarding the tubes specifically, as it happens, I’m at the factory now and noticed each Pro and Basic tube is labeled with barcodes to ensure the right tube goes in the right machine. We’re very careful to be sure the extra magic goes to the right place!


#38

Fair enough, thank you for the clarification. I know some of us are genuinely curious about the differences. On a somewhat tangent, my pro should be coming soon and I’m excited to start playing with it. :star_struck:


#39

Are you able to clarify on these parts any more? (im sure it would help all of this over-anxious back and forth)

Which optics and which parts of the linear system?

Are these parts that basic users will be able to buy to upgrade their systems?


#40

No more detail I’m afraid, but no, they’re not user replaceable yet - at some point we may offer replacements for the parts that are different. (We will for sure in the case of tubes)


#41

Looks like a case of the emperor’s new clothes, or perhaps another redefinition of English words like motion components to include the power supply or software.