If that were the only problem they were trying to solve in those 2 years, you might have a point. It wasn’t, and you don’t.
2 Likes
Who cares if they “were” or “are” “working” on other or many things.
THE POINT IS THIS WAS SOLD AS IF ALL THESE THINGS WERE ALREADY THERE.
NOT THAT THEY WOULD COME ALONG 2 YEARS (OR LONGER) AFTER YOU PAID FOR IT.
This thing barely does a fraction of what it was sold as. And if any of the typical sycophants are thinking of replying to this with “they are working on it and you should just trust them”, save it.
Sorry for the yelling, but the “Cult of the Glowforge” is getting really old.
I amazed by the people who continuously and steadfastly defend this company as if it is the second coming of Apple. Get a grip.
6 Likes
lolz.
2 Likes
How about we start over here? 
I’m sorry some people’s feelings got hurt and they feel they were deceived two years ago. But each person here needs to take part of the responsibility for that, because everyone learned two months later that it was not the case. We could have cancelled then, and didn’t. There were numerous times along the way that we could have cancelled, and didn’t. There were people who said all along the way that schedules are not promises and many did not listen because it wasn’t what they wanted to hear.
We all bear part of the responsibility for where we are now…it is not just Glowforge’s fault.
(Individuals who think you could have done a better job are entitled to that opinion, and I look forward to buying your product when you build one. Maybe you’ll even get to see what it feels like to have people bullying you for a couple of years because you didn’t meet their expectations and they’re pissed. Might be an eye opener.)
This is what building a new product is like. If you don’t like it, put it down to a learning experience. The next time you encounter a new product, you’ll know what to expect. Continually complaining about something that happened two years ago gets to be very irritating to other people who understood perfectly well what was going on, and who chose to help build the product that many of you are happily trashing. If believing in something and the people building it is a cult, so be it. It’s a label I wear proudly in this case, and so do many others here. Those people have done a lot of work to help make this happen, and to make it easier for those of you currently trashing the product to use. Some of the people who volunteered their time and energy for the last year and a half to make this a reality and not another failed business venture take it personally when people who didn’t lift a finger to help spend an inordinate amount of time opining about how lousy the product is, or who continually berate Dan and Glowforge for it. If everyone would try to keep that in mind when they discuss the limitations of the product and keep it civil, we’d see fewer people jumping down each other’s throats.
In the meantime, those of us in support of the product who believe that Glowforge will continue to improve it, need to quit trying to convince people who are dead-set against it that it’s a worthwhile product. If some people decide that the lack of features means they don’t want the product, that is probably the right decision for them. So let them make it. Some people might not be able to wait any longer, and that’s a decision that only they can make.
No one is going to convince anyone else that they are wrong, and it’s draining to watch. Once the machines have gone out they are going to sell themselves to new customers who didn’t have to wait two years for the build, and not a single one of them is going to give a damn that it took a couple of years to complete.
In the meantime, we have to let people make up their own minds. Trying to convince people that they are wrong is generally what brings out offensive behavior in return, when people feel someone is being attacked for saying what might be considered to be overly negative (or positive) things.
I’d suggest we all quit taking offense at every little thing people say. It’s a great product. People who believe in it will find it delightful. People who misunderstood what they were going to get in the beginning have to reach the decision to stay or go with something else on their own, in their own time. Some might need to hear from others to make their decision. So let them solicit opinions positive and negative. The people who aren’t going to like it shouldn’t get the product. It’s not going to please everyone. Glowforge knows that, and doesn’t have a problem with it. We shouldn’t either.
And I’m just going to go ahead and apologize to @dan and Glowforge now. Might as well get it out of the way.
12 Likes
It would be much easier to make up our own minds if we actually had our machines - instead of continuous empty promises.
3 Likes
We never had a single promise. What we had was a schedule. They missed it several times because it was not realistic.
They took their best guess and it was wrong.
It does make it hard to make a decision as a customer, but looking at the things in the Made on a Glowforge category, to see if it is the kind of thing that you want to make yourself, can help with that call.
There are still no promises on dates. They can’t do it. They are going to give us their best estimate again, and they might miss it again. If there is a time limit on your decision and you want it over something else, wait as long as you can.
It’s all any of us can do, and it’s not comfortable. At all.
7 Likes
We have been deceived over and over again, deliberately. If at any time they has said you will actually get it in 2018 I think nearly everybody would have cancelled. Only be pretending it is only another six months they kept people on board although it seems significant number are cancelling now.
Also if they said originally the camera would be 1/4" off I don’t think many would have bought it.
3 Likes
I’m sorry Jules but blaming the victim and saying we’re somehow responsible is ridiculous and obnoxious. I’m not responsible in any way for Glowforge failures.
I want my machine as advertised and I want Glowforge to succeed to allow my machine to continue to function. That’s it. I have not contributed to anything in regards to their problems or failures.
This is the kind of ridiculous attitude that makes so many upset. Do you own part of the company or are an employee of Glowforge?
7 Likes
Chris, you have a right to your opinion, but we’ve been hearing it continuously for the better part of a year, and our memories are really pretty good.
I get it. You feel you were deceived. A lot of other people understood what was going on and are accepting of it, if not actually thrilled that it took a lot longer than the folks at Glowforge thought it would.
If you feel you need to continually point it out, a lot of other people are going to continue to discount everything you say. We’re not stupid, and we really don’t need to be reminded constantly that you think Glowforge has done you wrong.
I’m not blaming anyone. I’m suggesting that everyone needs to take partial responsibility for their actions. No one is a victim in this case except by choice. Anyone can get a refund at any time and buy something that is available off the shelves. And people need to be a little bit more aware of how nasty and frankly juvenile the complaining sounds. On both sides.
You’re free to consider me obnoxious, or ridiculous, or anything you choose. You don’t have to like me. And no, I’m not an employee of Glowforge.
But if it’s too much to ask that people be civil to each other on the forum, I know for sure that I don’t belong here, and I can just go back to doing what i was doing, wait for my machine like everyone else, and play with it a couple of times a year like I was planning to do when I bought it.
Either way works just fine for me.
Complaining does not do a bit of good to speed things up, and it doesn’t get the machines to us faster. A lot of people think it does, but they’re wrong. It hasn’t in two years, it won’t now. If it makes you feel better, fine, go ahead. But a little less vitriol is going to go a long way towards keeping the forum a place that people want to come back to, and driving off the people who understand how to use the machines isn’t a great plan unless you’re brilliant and don’t need help of any kind from anyone.
And I apologize for asking people to consider the feelings of others in addition to their own.
6 Likes
That’s the specific part I took offense to. I am 100% not responsible in any way for Glowforge’s repeated failures to deliver. In no way did I bear any responsibility. As a matter of fact by not canceling despite delivery slides, I’m only responsible for helping the company succeed.
I actually like you, love your work, all your support and help to so many but it’s not right to blame us for any of this. As I said, we are only helping the company by not canceling and believing that one day we’ll get a machine. I just can’t let anyone blame the customers for the failures of the company.
I’ll drop this as a subject now.
6 Likes
What is especially frustrating is the automatic “quit whining” from the same group of regulars whenever people come here and express their frustration.
Perhaps you need to consider the feelings of those who do not feel the same kinship with the company that you do. You’ve been here pretty much the whole time. You’ve formed your opinion over the course of many interactions with the staff of GF, and that certainly has value.
No one will change the opinion that you came to after your personal experiences with this company.
No one will change the opinion of those that come here angry about their personal experiences with this company.
Maybe, letting people vent without spending a lot of effort trying to convince them that they are wrong wouldn’t be so bad. (It isn’t working, anyway).
7 Likes
This!
4 Likes
Cult of Apple, sure. Point out the ridiculousness of “the notch” to one and they’ll defend it to the death. The difference here is we know they’ve done things poorly but both accept the reality of it and recognize there isnt anything we can do to change it but continue waiting.
If “you” wish to believe that because we don’t dwell on the disappointment of missed dates we’re fanbois then fine. Please stop expecting us to all react the same as you though and realize that the company is guilty of the same missed dates for all of us. The difference ln reaction lies in the Individual. Insofar as this goes, the responsibility of how you choose to feel/deal with your feelings are on “you” not the company.
TL:DR We’ve been there, dealt with it, moved on. We hear you. We feel you. What you do about it is your responsibility.
7 Likes
Just stop… This is one of the many cult-like aspects of this forum community. It’s literally everywhere. I’ll say it again. “I AM NOT TRYING TO CONVINCE PEOPLE. I do not expect people to feel the same as me” I am simply sharing my position the same way EVERYONE here does. The endless positive comments are never accused of expecting people to react the same as them but somehow I must be. I just stated where I am in this whole deal. If you disagree, fine. Ignore my post and go on and post your happy thoughts.
1 Like
Kali ma! Kali ma! Kali ma!!!
1 Like
Cheerleader rant:
I had a recalled machine. I sat on that information for a week and mentioned in a post THANKING SUPPORT FOR DOING A GREAT JOB that they had done well. I didn't really think it was necessary information for the alarmists to worry about. Now you want to add it to a spreadsheet of every thing that has gone wrong with a Glowforge?Some folks are mad as wet hens over their glowforge not being there yet.
That’s your right.
I’m starting to get pretty angry that even my “Thanks for doing something right” is going to get tallied in a spreadsheet of ills.
Why don’t we compile a spreadsheet of all the happy people with functioning machines that are churning out good results?
I think those would also be pretty useful data points. What’s good about the machine that you have spent thousands of dollars on? What’s going to be great at the impending end of your wait?
Isn’t one spreadsheet good enough to sew discontent on these forums?
Ok, mad people, your turn to tell me how stupid I am and how illogical my rant is in comparison to yours.
4 Likes
Spreadsheets collate facts. If you find those facts uncomfortable then you don’t like reality and prefer some rose tinted view.
1 Like
These spreadsheets don’t represent reality. The facts you are collating come from a limited and biased sample.
You can compile as many limited lists of facts as you want, but you can’t honestly claim they represent reality. This is not a controlled study.
3 Likes
Well if you compile a list of faults then you would only need to know the total machines dispatched to put it into context. I don’t see how there is any bias unless people make up faults that don’t exist.
We can estimate the number dispatched using the fulfilment spreadsheet. I don’t see how that can be biased. People keep trying to claim it is inaccurate with no evidence of why. It totally predicted this last delay while GF staff were still telling people they were going to get their machines in October. 490 out about 10000 is a very big sample.
I’m always a little confused by the emotions in these posts. I understand why someone still waiting for a laser cutter and or promised features is upset and want to vent. I also understand why some are very excited about getting a Glowforge.
But why does a cheerleader get angry? The company isn’t making them mad. They’re mad, apparently, that somebody else got angry. Why? It’s not your upset, it’s not your work they are criticising. Why do you find it scary for them to vent, compile lists of reported problems or lists of shipments?
8 Likes