SVG vs PDF: what are advantages of SVG?

shop · January 5, 2019, 9:02pm

Most users seem to prefer SVGs to send files to the GF. There have been a number of issues with settings exporting ASVGs, most seeming to relate to DPI settings and scaling that come from the original intentions of SVG files being designed as a web graphic format.

PDF files were designed originally to accommodate print and as well as electronic and, for me have been far more consistent.

So, I’m curious. Why the general preference for SVG? I’m willing to be convinced that it’s a better format for the GF,

hansepe · January 5, 2019, 9:06pm

SVG is lightweight and a web standard, PDF is an Adobe standard.

As far as “standard” goes, both have their issues, but overall I prefer the smaller file sizes of the SVG files.

shop · January 5, 2019, 9:49pm

I was curious about this. i just did a save as out of illustrator with 4 files as PDF and as SVG. some PDFs were smaller and some SVGs were smaller. i’m not sure that’s a hard and fast rule. in fact, the PDF was smaller in 3 of the 4 i did. only the escher fish file was larger as PDF.

evansd2 · January 5, 2019, 9:56pm

Any time Inkscape tries to estimate nodes I get nervous, this would include importing other file formats. DXFs for example give me terrible results when importing to inkscape. I prefer to stay in SVG land, it’s native throughout.

I don’t have full acrobat, so editing PDFs in their native habitat isn’t an option for me. I haven’t been seriously bitten by the PDF->inkscape workflow, but I am not going to fool with it since my SVGs give me zero problems.

shop · January 5, 2019, 10:05pm

i can definitely appreciate the issue of not having the full PDF program. can you not open a PDF from inkscape?

Hobblebush · January 5, 2019, 10:14pm

Specifically to Glowforge, SVG means no format changes and less chance for errors/less need for going in and tweaking. It only saves a small amount of time in most cases, but if you’re doing it constantly it adds up.

hansepe · January 5, 2019, 10:23pm

Interesting. I’ve got the exact opposite thing going on. My PDFs are always bigger, sometimes by a factor of 10 or more.

Oh, and one more “advantage” if you will of an SVG is I can view source and make tweaks with something as simple as notepad. This obviously isn’t something everybody would want to do though.

In the end, whatever works for you is the right approach. There is no right or wrong as far as the GF is concerned, it takes both.

The only modification I’ve made to my work flow was adapting to the newest AI CC interface last year. I’d just learned the old interface (somewhat) when Adobe changed things. I’m quite fond of the new interface now, and have learned so much more since last year at this time.

shop · January 5, 2019, 10:33pm

hrm. i could work purely in PDF files if i want, but that may be based on me using Illustrator. regardless, i’m not sure i would work in a purely SVG world. SVGs don’t support a lot of what a native file format supports (PDF does for illustrator if you keep the “preserve illustrator editing” box when you save). i wouldn’t want to lose things like layers or brushes or anything like that. so i always have a native file for any project i work in.

make sure you have your PDF export files set up to save smaller files. from illustrator, what i mentioned above is a big part of that. unchecking that “preserve illustrator editing” box will make a much smaller file most of the time.

chris1 · January 5, 2019, 10:41pm

Use what you like!

But… I just went into Illustrator and drew a 1x1in circle positioned at 1,1 on a Glowforge-sized artboard, then saved it as both an SVG and a PDF. The SVG file contains this:

<svg id="Layer_1" data-name="Layer 1" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20in" height="12in" viewBox="0 0 1440 864">
  <title>Artboard 1</title>
  <circle cx="108" cy="108" r="36" fill="#fff" stroke="#231f20" stroke-miterlimit="10"/>
</svg>

and the PDF contains this:

%PDF-1.6\r%‚„œ”\r
1 0 obj\r<</Metadata 2 0 R/OutputIntents[<</DestOutputProfile 5 0 R/Info(U.S. Web Coated \\(SWOP\\) v2)/OutputCondition()/OutputConditionIdentifier(CGATS TR 001)/RegistryName(http://www.color.org)/S/GTS_PDFX/Type/OutputIntent>>]/Pages 3 0 R/Type/Catalog>>\rendobj\r2 0 obj\r<</Length 24014/Subtype/XML/Type/Metadata>>stream\r
<?xpacket begin="Ôªø" id="W5M0MpCehiHzreSzNTczkc9d"?>
<x:xmpmeta xmlns:x="adobe:ns:meta/" x:xmptk="Adobe XMP Core 5.6-c145 79.163499, 2018/08/13-16:40:22        ">
   <rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#">
      <rdf:Description rdf:about=""
            xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
            xmlns:xmp="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/"
            xmlns:xmpGImg="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/g/img/"
            xmlns:xmpMM="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/mm/"
            xmlns:stRef="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/sType/ResourceRef#"
            xmlns:stEvt="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/sType/ResourceEvent#"
            xmlns:illustrator="http://ns.adobe.com/illustrator/1.0/"
            xmlns:xmpTPg="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/t/pg/"
            xmlns:stDim="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/sType/Dimensions#"
            xmlns:xmpG="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/g/"
            xmlns:pdf="http://ns.adobe.com/pdf/1.3/"
            xmlns:pdfxid="http://www.npes.org/pdfx/ns/id/"
            xmlns:pdfx="http://ns.adobe.com/pdfx/1.3/">
         <dc:format>application/pdf</dc:format>
         <dc:title>
            <rdf:Alt>
               <rdf:li xml:lang="x-default">Untitled</rdf:li>
            </rdf:Alt>
         </dc:title>
         <xmp:MetadataDate>2019-01-05T17:30:54-05:00</xmp:MetadataDate>
         <xmp:ModifyDate>2019-01-05T17:30:54-05:00</xmp:ModifyDate>
         <xmp:CreateDate>2019-01-05T17:30:54-05:00</xmp:CreateDate>
         <xmp:CreatorTool>Adobe Illustrator CC 23.0 (Macintosh)</xmp:CreatorTool>
         <xmp:Thumbnails>
            <rdf:Alt>
               <rdf:li rdf:parseType="Resource">
                  <xmpGImg:width>256</xmpGImg:width>
                  <xmpGImg:height>256</xmpGImg:height>
                  <xmpGImg:format>JPEG</xmpGImg:format>
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         <xmpMM:RenditionClass>proof:pdf</xmpMM:RenditionClass>
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Well, actually it contains a lot more than that, but the forum won’t let me paste the full megabyte of crap, so I had to truncate it at 30k.

I’m not making a file size argument, BTW, I couldn’t care less how big it is. It’s about the ridiculous complexity and impenetrability of PDF. Whatever is in there, it’s a lot more than a laser cutter needs to make a circle.

shop · January 5, 2019, 10:52pm

not sure how you ended up with a full megabyte. i saved a 1" circle as PDF and it was 49k. granted, that’s bigger than the 1k circle from SVG.

my settings: started with high quality print, adjusted to Acrobat 8 compatibility and turned off preserved editing and got 49k.

did it again at “illustrator default” and it was 739k. but that is essentially a compressed illustrator file, as it contains things like layers and other illustrator features in it. it’s a lot of unnecessary data to upload to the GFUI for sure, but you don’t need to use those settings when you export.

the main reason i have advocated in the past for PDF is because, well, it just doesn’t give as many print errors. hell, you don’t even need to convert text to outlines first because the PDF handles the fonts for you, even in the GFUI.

i agree with the “use what you like” philosophy, neither is wrong. i was just trying to understand why users predominantly use SVG instead of PDF.

i’m sure some of why i use PDFs is because i’ve used it for almost two decades to send print files to printers.

chris1 · January 5, 2019, 10:59pm

Again, I don’t care about the file size, but I do care about simplicity and directness. The SVG is not 1k, it’s 248 bytes, and nearly all of them are relevant to the task at hand.

I’m impressed that the Glowforge app can make use of PDFs at all, but I personally dislike their convoluted and opaque nature.

shop · January 5, 2019, 11:03pm

well, PDFs have to be able to do a lot more than an SVG will do, so i’m not surprised that the overhead to make that work is more. not trying to defend adobe or say that the format couldn’t be more transparent, but the capabilities of a PDF are light years ahead of what SVG can do. could it be less convoluted and still accomplish everything it needs to? i can’t say, i’m not a coder, but ut’s a much more robust file format than SVG is, we just don’t need 99% of that for the GFUI.

that’s not intended as a ding on the SVG format. PDF was designed to do a lot more and SVG was designed to be a simpler structure. it is what it is.

markevans36301 · January 5, 2019, 11:48pm

I’m not a big Tech head when it comes to file formats I always just use whatever I started with and have never had a problem with either. Inkscape does PDF just fine.

hansepe · January 5, 2019, 11:51pm

As I’ve now seen discussed after you posted the quote above, I’ve never bothered optimizing the PDF output since SVG has worked from the beginning for me. I will probably go tweak them now though just because…

system · February 7, 2019, 1:51am

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