Today I really needed a glowforge

Everything Else
43

Boulder has gone back and forth on both the vans and the traffic signal cameras. Legal, illegal, rinse repeat…

Currently, both systems are legal and in use. Any pondering as to the purpose of these in Boulder can be put to rest by the following from their FAQ:

Will I receive points on my driving record for this violation?

No. Photo enforcement violations are zero point Traffic Infractions that are not reported to the Department of Motor Vehicles.

So, revenue stream it is!

BTW, a couple of years ago, a guy up in Longmont rigged up an IR LED “blaster” that would trigger the First Responder overrides on all the traffic lights along Hover Road. Longmont couldn’t figure out why all the southbound lights were turning green every morning (& northbound in the evening). Puzzle solved when their traffic cameras showed the same car passing through every one of them. I’d express what I think of his actions, but I’m trying not to get flagged/banned.

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44

The Ohio Turnpike used hollerith (punch) cards back in the 60s & 70s. Drive through and get a card with the entrance id and timestamp. When you go off (or went through a tollgate), they ran the card through a reader that calculated the toll based on the distance.

So… They had the distance you had driven on the turnpike and the begin/end times down to a second. Guess what they did with that info! :smiling_imp:

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45

I remember that! Guy didn’t think that quite all the way through.:no_mouth:

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46

Had he also covered his entire car with IR LEDs as well, it would have effectively obfuscated his car from the cameras. :wink:

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47

Actually, you’re even safer than that. You’re actually illuminating the license plate and making it easier for human eyes to see it.

As for Alberta laws… you’re pretty safe there. Because Alberta Highway Traffic Act, Section 53 laws only cover obscuring or defacing a license plate, not over exposing a license plate. Because the plates are still plainly visible to the public and officers, the most an officer can really do in this case is pull a driver over for having a dirty license plate.

Case in point: I have a license plate that’s a palindrome. ie. HMW 968. I drove around town for the better part of a year with it upside down, reading 896 MWH. It wasn’t obscured, it wasn’t defaced, it wasn’t different than any other license plate except it was upside down.

Eventually at the end of the year, a police officer that was driving beside me on the street glanced over and noticed. Pulled up beside me at the next set of lights. We said hello. He asked if I was aware that my license plate was upside down. I thanked him for pointing it out, and he suggested that “I might want to get that straightened around,” with a touch of the nose warning.

In another case of over-engineering: Impark Parking drones that go around to all the parking lots to check plates for overstay are stupid. The foot patrols scan plates and their scanners print the ticket for them… but it’s up to the human to supervise the scanner’s suggested plate reading.

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48

Most of our cop cars are equipped with license plate readers now. Ostensibly for catching bad guys but often used to tag folks in parking lots for unpaid fines or traffic tickets (while giving them another ticket :slight_smile:). Occasionally they do find a car that’s been reported stolen or a serious miscreant but most often it’s just little fish but decent money.

They’re supposed to delete the scans after 60 days.

49

Yeah, I’ve seen both roof-mounted and handheld used as well. Police love them because if there’s a BOLO, then it effectively turns every cruiser into a GTA participant. Insurance loves them for reclamation or claim monitoring (we noticed you’re on worker’s comp, but your vehicle was seen around the golf course when we were looking for stolen vehicles…)

I have a buddy that works in surveillance for the local PD. Lots of amusing anecdotes.

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50

Managed parking at a major University for 17 years, and co-founded the regional parking association. Always amazed me how many people who would never even dream of breaking any other law saw no problem at all in doing all sorts of things to get around parking laws and paying for parking… everything from forging permits, putting old tickets under their windshield wipers, painting another leg on a P to make it an R, stealing another car’s plates, using Uncle Pete’s DMV Disabled placard, using plugs and or the perfectly sized (but of miniscule value) foreign coin for the meter, etc. Amazing how angry folks can get about parking…:astonished:

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51

My dad did that. It wasn’t a palindrome, just upside down. No one noticed for quite a while. He finally did and put it on right.

I have a friend who is a supervisor for Mopar. He gets ridiculously good company leases. For 18 months back when the Crossfire was in its last years he had one for 18 months (normally he has a minivan). He mainly works nights which means coming home around 3am. In the decades he’s been working there he has only been pulled over 3 times - all 3 times coming home, at around 3am, in a two seat car. To be clear he drives about 10mph below the speed limit (in the left lane because he’s a horrible driver.) Never ticketed, but it seems odd doesn’t it :confounded:

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52

Beg pardon? :confused: That doesn’t read the same backward: “869 WMH”

53

Palindromesque? I made a word…

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54

I suppose Palindrome technically, is not correct. An ambigram, if you will.

To illustrate:

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55

Cops issuing a ticket are also a revenue generation device with a human involved. Personally, I would rather have the machine issue me a ticket based on mathematical fact as opposed to the cop who could decide to pull me over simply because he doesn’t like my car.

You don’t get a choice. A cop rolls up behind you they can run your plates with or without your permission and get your entire DMV and police histories. Zero choice. At least with the red light camera, that system will only look up your info if you trigger a citation.

I don’t think I illustrated my point properly. My point is that the system works correctly 99% of the time, but all the general public ever hears about is the 1% of mistakes, therefore they draw the conclusion that the whole system is flawed because it is constantly making mistakes, and that just isn’t true.

And what makes you think that a cop isn’t a 3rd party motivated by profit?

You nailed it on the head… thanks for not paying attention. It has nothing to do with how the driver reacts when a yellow light comes on, it has to do with the driver behind them who wasn’t paying attention and causes the accident. Also, I would venture to say that a rear-end collision is less dangerous than the t-bone when the guy races the light and hits side-traffic instead.

Aside from choosing alternate paths, you don’t really have a choice. Sometimes you just have to go through that red-light-camera-enforced intersection. Just like the cop running your plate, they don’t have to ask your permission to run your information… but unlike the cop running your plate, you can take some solace in the fact that the machine won’t run your information unless you trigger a violation… actually that’s not true. I know of at least one city that runs the plate of every vehicle entering city limits. It then flags any that are linked to warrants and alerts PD that the vehicle has entered the city.

I don’t know of any system on this planet that functions correctly 100% of the time. It just doesn’t exist. At least, as I said above, the camera is based on mathematical fact. Occasionally the ghost in the machine causes an error or the camera got hit by a bird shifting the detection zone. At least no bias is involved.

A cop can pull you over for running the light and reckless driving even if you made it into the intersection on the yellow. Then they can issue a ticket for both items because they didn’t like your haircut. The motivations of humans are vast and complex, and can be swayed by innumerable variables that have nothing to do with whether you ran the light.

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56

True but I can cross examine the cop in court. Will the traffic camera take the stand? Point is, traffic cameras are fundamentaly un-American. We have a right to face our accusers. A computer would be more impartal than a jury as well but I’m not ready to be tried by one.

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57

There are definately senario where something like this would hinder more than help. We only have 2 ETR in canada I believe. 1 in Toronto (where such a device is illegal) and 1 in BC ( off the I5 I think ) crossing the border and up into Vancouver.

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58

Did you say Toronto?

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59

You have that right with a photo-enforced citation as well.

[quote=“Seattle WA Red Light Enforcement FAQ”]
The Seattle Police Department reviews every violation before the citation is issued. Citations contain images of the violation vehicle before it enters the intersection, while it is in the intersection, and the license plate. [/quote]

[quote=“Seattle WA Red Light Enforcement FAQ”]
At a contested hearing the City has the burden of proving by a preponderance of the evidence that the infraction was committed. You may subpoena witnesses including the officer who issued this Notice of Infraction.[/quote]

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60

Nope. Perfect sense. A lot of times impaired drivers know they’re not operating at peak efficiency so they slow down, sometimes way down. They do it so they can navigate turns, etc. and to hopefully prevent the cops from taking an interest in them and pulling them over. 3AM is post-bar closing, 2-seater is a “not your father’s station wagon” type vehicle (and statistically likely sporty/party type driver).

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61

100% agree.

I can also chat with the cop at the scene. He may decide I’m a nice guy and really didn’t blow the light because he can see my sight line was obstructed by my visor and give me a warning to be careful of that and maybe flip it up when approaching a light. The best way to fight a ticket is to avoid getting it in the first place and a human cop has at least the potential to not issue. the machine doesn’t care.

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62

I know about driving slow equals impaired (that was taught to us in high school drivers ed), although it would seem to mean weaker probable cause and a sportier, new, car means a better chance a real lawyer will be hired.

My point was not a single time was he pulled over in the family truckster.