What does Glowforge have to say about this review?

OK. Well, it’s clearly not spam. Please approve the post, then you can respond to any issues that were raised.

Or as easy as… FIRST UNITS SHIPPING DECEMBER 2015. first units… How many? FIRST 3? then for sure they will ship December 2015. Oh well!

@dan: Is the pledge page going to be updated to reflect a more accurate ship date?

Really appreciate everyone’s feedback here. By way of explanation, as a frequent purchaser of things-that-don’t-ship-immediately, there are two dates I care about: when the first units ship, and when the last units ship. To my mind, the first units shipping date is the most important, because it’s the best indicator of how far along the project is. That’s why we put it front and center: our schedule has you hearing from actual users this year.
That said, hear your feedback and I’ve forwarded this thread to our head of product so he can decide what to do. I don’t see a problem so I’m not going to recommend a change, but that’s going to be his call.

3 Likes

Let’s see how many “where’s my unit” threads start in December so you can call it a problem then…

This is my second crowdfunding campaign. My first one (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/danshapiro/robot-turtles-the-board-game-for-little-programmer) shipped to all 13,000 backers early.

I’m not telling you that because I’m saying we will ship early; lasers are harder than boardgames. I’m telling you this because I have firsthand knowledge: shipping on time does not prevent you from getting “where’s my unit” emails. : )

7 Likes

Having worked on the engineering side of new product development for all but five out of my 29 working years, when I read first units shipping in December, if 1 unit exits the building on Dec 31 that is meeting your schedule (which is a feat in and of itself.) I understand that those in marketing and the customer think all units are out the door Dec 1. You’re not wrong to expect your new investment by Christmas, they said December after all, but you also shouldn’t be wearing blinders.

I’ve seen product demos of solid equipment go south, more often than not, and I’ve seen demos of vaporware go brilliantly. I’d rather see solid engineering ship late than crap on time. Sales, management, investors and marketing don’t always share that view so lets be balanced in our criticism - they don’t need any more leverage in contentious discussions about ship dates vs quality. That Dan is a founder and an engineer, well it just bodes as well as these things can. I understand the jitters and fears of people who’ve put up a lot of money on nothing but promises, but in the end all you can do is wait and pray. If you really do think this will be a boondoggle, cancel your order and then reorder in a week. You’ll be far enough back in line that if the first units are a fail you can cancel your reorder and you’re only out the emotional cost of your investment. On the other hand, if they do meet expectations you’ll still be in line at half price.

14 Likes

I think the issue that people are having is that, upon pre-ordering, the impression was given that we would all have our units within a few months. And now there is an unknown wait time and little to no clear communication regarding when units will be arriving. I don’t believe most people (myself included) realized you had not even begun production before you began accepting money.

A clear timeline, greater level of communication, and more transparency would likely soothe a lot of the ruffled feathers that are happening. Everyone is incredibly excited for these machines, but are also starting to feel a little duped and taken advantage of. And I know that is certainly not your intent. But early customer reviews will certainly reflect the customer service experience, and that could really be improved by a greater level of communication regarding production and shipping.

1 Like

Everyone is…? Not a chance. In fact, I don’t know what else Admin (@dan etc.) could do to be more transparent. There is no communication on “when these things will be arriving” because there is no communication to be had… I’m pretty sure I’ve read multiple times now that when they know, we’ll know. If I have issues with the way things are going, I’ll cancel my order… you should know you have that power too. Your money is not gone. There are other laser machines out there that you could have at your doorstep in a few weeks. But you want this one because it sounds absolutely
amazing and you know this is not Dan’s first rodeo.

5 Likes

Please don’t say everyone, it is simply not true. By all means, talk about your concerns but don’t project them on me.
I ordered on day 2, but not until after I had read everything I could on the project, company, principles, and lasers in general. I informed myself on what a small desktop laser could do, and not do, and I paid careful attention to what the folks at Glowforge were saying about their device.
There was plenty of information available to show that the Glowforge was still very much in development, even as they gave progressively better and better demos.
Speaking strictly for myself, I will be happy to get a product that does what they have promised, even if I have to wait a few extra months to get it. Obviously if it shows up and is a dud then I will be disappointed, but I purchased because I don’t think that will happen.

7 Likes

My apologies for a poor wording choice. I was merely attempting to summarize a lot of the feelings I’ve seen being expressed across the forums and suggest a potential helpful solution (ie, clearer communication)

Editing to add, I meant that everyone is feeling very excited. Not that everyone is feeling disgruntled. But I obviously failed to write that clearly.

Please try and read this in a positive tone, as I know it all sounds a bit negative. My intent is to help clarify why there are so many on-edge backers out there, and why the natives are growing more restless.

I’m familiar with backing tech startups and product launches like this, so I was aware of what I was getting into when I pre-ordered the pro model. This product is so universally appealing that it has brought in a lot of folks that are not used to this kind of process.

My only criticism is that I’ve never seen backers left this in the dark this late in the game. At less than 2 months out from the shipping window we’ve seen almost nothing tangible demonstrated. I understand that it’s difficult to design and manufacture something so complicated and also hit the pause button frequently to stop and show people what you are building. And maybe the marketing team is worried about showing people a rough prototype or beta UI in action out of fear that people will confuse it with the final product… But it might be a good idea to get someone on the GF team with a bit more bandwidth to shine some light on the product and show us that it’s not all smoke and mirrors. (puns semi-intentional)

I think the point of concern is that almost all of the novel features that we are all so excited about (and we are clearly very excited, it’s looking to be a revolutionary product!) have not been seen or demonstrated, even with a prototype, so we are left with faith alone. And it’s asking a lot out of backers with thousands of dollars on the line to hang in there on faith alone.

The only novel demonstrations we have seen are a bit of the part dragging interface and the sketch tracing feature in action (cutting only, no interface or workflow).

All we as backers/customers have seen is a well crafted marketing video (which shows almost nothing in action) and the Tested interview that shows very little other than a slight peek at the dragging interface. Normally there is a lot more transparency when a product is publicly backed.

We’ve still not seen real demonstrations of the following:

  • The workflow of anyone actually using the GF. From putting in a design to cutting or etching. We’ve only seen 1 or 2 preset examples being cut, not setup.
  • Any aspects of the automatic alignment feature for cutting larger pieces (actual workflow or samples of it in action)
  • Engraving settings or examples beyond the automatic tracing of pen sketches.
  • Demonstration or even images of the passthrough slots
  • Any of the software in action (most of what is shown in the marketing video is simulated screen images) even demos of a crude beta interface would be nice.
  • Examples of three dimensional multi-pass engraving done by the GF or that workflow
  • Examples of cutting both sides of material with automatic alignment and that workflow
  • Indications what the actual workflow is like for processing/importing your vector design and selecting materials/cutting settings/engraving settings/etc.
  • Demonstration or workflow of using the sketch tracing feature and how you define where inside/outside cuts, etc. We’ve seen awesome video of the output, but not what it takes to get there.
  • And I’m sure I’m leaving a lot out that others have been posting questions about elsewhere.

Again, this is not a complaint, but an checklist of the kind of things you could share with us (even as a rough prototype/beta UI) that would calm people down and ease some fears. It might be a good time to pull the magical marketing curtain back a bit and show something to those that have trusted you with over $6 million.

That said, those of us that invested did so willingly, and hopefully the villagers will see some real examples of the GF so they can lay down the torches and pitchforks.

This is all said out of love and respect. I wholeheartedly believe that the GF will be an amazing and life changing product for creative folks like myself, and I have nothing but respect for Dan and the entire GF team. They’ve set themselves a monumental task with such a revolutionary product, let alone handling so many curious and excited backers. The fact that GF CEO is taking time out of his day to answer questions here when they are busy trying to build the impossible goes to show how much passion and dedication is going into making the GF a reality.

10 Likes

Well put @chris – I agree with most of that but also want to point out that it’s obvious that a lot is not done / finalized. And I agree with not wanting to show a half baked version to backers. And at this point I personally would rather the developers spend valuable time developing and maybe we will see more in a month after the crowdfunding is closed and the team can really get to work. Yeah I’d like to see it work tomorrow but that’s not happening soon :frowning:

1 Like

I recently backed Tiko on Kickstarter (a 3D Printer). Their communication while setting up manufacturing has been pretty remarkable. They are rarely going in to the specifics, but yet convey a solid sense of where things are sitting for their ideal timeline.

I would love to see a similar level of update here, and it would feel like the timeline is roughly equitable between the two projects, and so GlowForge should already be dealing with manufacturers to set up machinery and obtain sample runs. But I can see where some people may be uncomfortable telling a very large (and at times apparently near rabid) semi-customer base that a manufacturer did not produce parts to spec, and has to start over on designing machinery for production line work.

2 Likes

@jacobturner Any word on when Tiko will take orders?

Why the offtopic now? GW is taking real orders and charging you “on the go”. Tiko was under the Kickstarter schema, and funding ended, period.

Not looking to derail. Just pointing at a current example of communication which may or may not be able to be emulated.

One of the problems with crowdsourcing is your have a myriad of backers who have no idea of the variables involved unless they themselves have crowdsourced…and even then like Dan pointed out in his comparisons of this and his other crowdsource campaign they are all different. I think what complainers are failing to grasp is the power that can be wielded in manufacturing with so much upfront money - or rather the guarantee of that. IMHO raising 10 million when your goal was 100,000 will result in everyone getting the units more quickly. This factor could never be estimated at the launch, this is one of the largest crowdsource funds of all time. My suggestion is everyone take a chill and appreciate this for what it is, history being made, and we are a part of it. Let things unfold, be engaged in what we can create with this tool. The amount of money you invested in the grand scheme of things is low and will be easily recouped once you have your unit - if you are creative. I for one am focusing my energy on creating content so when my unit arrives I will be ready. I am confident that given the resources afforded them the Glowforge team is going to succeed, and in fact this is just the beginning. Given the communication so far, which is actually quite remarkable given other crowdsource campaigns I have backed, I also expect we will see a lot of updates along the way. We are 16 days in folks.

6 Likes

Very well said Tennessee Reid. Like you I am putting together my own catalog of sorts. Ready to hit the ground running when the GF arrives. I did have a moment or two of doubts. There is something about Dan. I really can’t say what it is, but whatever it is, I trust his word. That isn’t so easy to say about most commercial endeavors. Especially Corpse-orations.
Thanks for chiming in here.

@ Chris - I totally respect what you have laid out here - but I have to challenge you saying that “this late in the game” backers should know more. We are 16 days into a 30 day window. The amount of information given compared to most other campaigns I have backed is staggering. There is not a single one of the 40 or so I have been involved with large and small that have ever set up a forum like this one, much less have the CEO directly responding to questions and criticisms. I am not worried. Let them stay focused on actually manufacturing the product. But again I think your engagement is great, bring up questions and ask for clarification- I would just caution us all to be patient, this is not a tech company with thousands of employees. Its dawn at the birth of a new day and we are all fortunate to be part of it. IMHO No big tech company would have let us in the groundfloor for half off folks…

1 Like