Now I feel bad. This morning I upgraded from a Basic + Filter to a Pro without, but to do that I had to upgrade to the Pro + Filter and have them refund the filter.
Wow! Were you dealing with Credit Default Swaps or something? Maybe money laundering?
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I think many people are not into manufacturing but since it seems to be a hard concept to grasp for some let me explain.
If GF has purchased X amount of this UBER high quality wood and so on and retail is 150 then wholesale can not be over 75.00 more likely under 50.00.
When you purchase direct from manufacture you are not buying at a loss so cost is not 150.00 So as I said a âcheap pay offâ is not that great of a deal.
I would rather spend my time learning on this machine and turning out product than waiting how long? normal lead time for production in most anyplace is 3 months. If you already found the power supply what is taking so long to turn these out? Canât assembly start now and power supply added last min?
So canât we look at getting product shipping within 3 months not 7 months.
From a manufacturing standpoint it makes no sense on the timeline given.
One last point about money why not ask yourself about how much has GF made on all preorders? now set that in a high interest account now wait 1 year with that account tell me the interest on that. Better yet investments to make your money grow even faster such as insurance companies do.
Just saying it is a raw ass deal and timelines make no sense and got a lot of sheep and fan boys here who will gladly drink the koolaid.
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It was indicated that though they have the power supply now, they havenât had long enough with it to test everything and trust it is completely ready. Manufacturing without the power supply when they could still discover new issues to solve after getting it and doing testing would be a waste.
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This is not a defense of the situation but an explanation⌠I would guess that the power supply was the primary reason for the delay but probably not the only one. But even if it was, the power supply is about as important to this design as the camera system. The PS probably shouldnât even be called a power supply because itâs not what most people think off when that term is used. Itâs a precision controller of sorts. Without a working power supply a significant portion of the S/W can not be moved beyond the simulation stage. The S/W and H/W integration (how well it everything works together can only begin at that point. In house and external Beta testing could not begin, certification for UL and CE can not begin. And from what I have heard they think the power supply is working but havenât evaluated it enough to turn out 10,000 of them. Some of us believe there is a 3-4 month delay that they have chosen, for many reasons, to announce as 6 months, so this never happens again.
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Sure would be nice if certain people, and you know who you are, would stop complaining about the gifts that have been offered. They donât have to give us ANYthing besides a finished product. Would you say all those negative things to a friend or family member who gave a gift to you?
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I mostly agree with you, but
As much as I think Glowforge is neat, theyâre a company, not my friends and family. Family gets treated differently than a commercially funded enterprise.
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If the power supply was just an ATX equivalent, Iâd be right there with you. It is my understanding that the PS is what allows the glowforge to make the claim in their tech specs regarding the 256 power levels, âEngraving at 1000 DPI with 256 power levels.â Quite a few purchasers are counting on its ability to engrave. Without a production-equivalent PS the software enabling the engraving can only be written to a certain point. Undoubtedly they have been making progress with their initial power supplies, but I could see where asking for such a long schedule slip, for this type of feature, particularly if things arenât going so well there, is reasonable. In my 20 years of delivering embedded systems (hardware and software) this isnât abnormal.
Or maybe after that Panama Law Firm scandal theyâre finding it harder to move all our money offshore.
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Wait a second. Am I the only one who sends out a RFQ to my friends/family when I want them to help me out on a project? 
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I think it makes perfect sense. (Yes, this is in defence of the situation) 
Iâm as butt hurt as anyone over the delay, but these guys just suffered and continue to suffer a world wide smackdown because they missed their projected time line. A serious blow to their valuable image, and huge let down for their customers. They wonât repeat that mistake. (thatâs a manufacturing strategy I have no trouble grasping)
Incorporating a wide margin of error will allow them to give customers a pleasant surprise when it comes before the deadline instead of a repeat performance of this delay and itâs consequinces.
I think most of us are aware of margins between wholesale and retail, and that the stated value of the materials from glowforge represent their retail prices. Thatâs business.
Considering they were not obligated to give us anything, IMO I donât see their offering as an attempt to screw me over. Especially when it costs the company a 2 million dollar hit (yes, retail value).
Pick any figure you like, and multiply that by 10,000.
Yep, Iâm a fan boy, been drinking the koolaid for 6months now. If I werenât, they wouldnât have my money and I wouldnât be here.
with the interest rates banks pay Iâm out about $20 for the period of time. I piss that away on a Saturday night!
If glowforge was clever ( and they are) the money is invested. Again, thatâs business. Iâm sure that was part of the business plan all along. (my feeble grasp of manufacturing tells me that allowed glowforge to offer machines at a greatly reduced price.) I mean, I havenât bought into âSALE!â or âFREE DELIVERY!â since I was an adolescent.
We just have a difference of opinion, you expressed yours, and are entitled to it - as I am mine.
We all see the world through the lens of our own perspective, thatâs the only view we have - so everyoneâs is different. Because I donât identify with yours, or you with mine doesnât invalidate either one.
With that in mind, belittling others with derogatory language because they have a different opinion than you do is misplacing your emotional frustration⌠IMHO, and certainly isnât welcome to those you ridicule for holding a view that differs than yours.
Just my opinion, which is clear you donât agree with, but that sir is your prerogative. 
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I am glad to see that there are people that while like me are enthusiastic about the product, have a more realistic view.
The delay was expected from my end. When December is the beta time, and April is when that happens, it was obvious that June was unattainable.
The December timeline gives me no confidence without more substantial items behind it. What is the risk tracker look like? What are the current risk items that still need to be retired? Once you have no more technical risks, it just becomes an execution challenge. Without knowing that, December is just as good as a guess as next May.
I applaud the team for offering something for the delay. I agree pretty much with the assessment Prez made as far of the value - To me it doesnât make much sense to argue on is it 1M+ or 500K+ - It could have been nothing.
Transparency is key; I think these items would really help keep people engaged and not cancelling orders:
- Commit to regular updates (4 weeks, 6 weeks, - figure out what timeframe works - just have them).
- Beta forum access - I saw that was going to be available, no information on it.
- Get more access to where we are with the software (screenshots, videos - something).
Having said all that, I am still excited about the product. I am not cancelling my order right now, but If the unit does not arrive by 31 DEC 2016, I wonât be in line until the next deadline.
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It is not a gift when I have paid 4000 soooo⌠Yeah I would
I dont remember âbox of materialsâ listed on the spec sheet. They arent bound in any way to give you those materials, theyre doing so because they feel bad for the delay. We all understand being upset because of late shipment, as we all want our lasers, but I doubt you are going to find a lot of people here willing to jump on this angry entitlement train with you. Its not going to get us our lasers any more quickly
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Letâs look at the opportunities it gives. Free awesome material as soon as the machine arrives. And even more time to get people to use your referral link, making your machine even cheaper.
I cannot say Iâm happy with the delay, but receiving a machine that would have caused a bad first impression would have made me angry. Imagine what the costs could have been of an unreliable unsufficiently tested power unit by ruining precious materials like, to name an extreme example: MacBook (for engraving). I guess until Glowforge starts to ship final versions (post-beta), the price wonât go up, as the uncertainty is not gone before. Basically you get a reduction in price for the uncertainty you are willing to take.
I think we all should be glad that we bought a product from a company that takes itâs responsibility and is open and honest about decisions as soon as they are able to.
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OKâŚhow 'bout a âthank you for your patienceâ offering. Whatever you want to call it, it was NOT part of the deal when you shelled out the 4,000. It didnât say that you would receive any of these things for that priceâŚand you wereât expecting them as part of it, either. If youâre so upset or offended by this, just give the stuff away and move on.
As jrnelson pointed outâŚtrueâŚ[quote=âjrnelson, post:30, topic:1937â]
As much as I think Glowforge is neat, theyâre a company, not my friends and family. Family gets treated differently than a commercially funded enterprise.
[/quote] however this should be considered a âpeace offeringââŚnot something that you were paying for when you hit that âbuy buttonâ.
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Xabbess, not sure if this will show up at all since the thread is closedâŚ
I really meant no harm to you with my comment and the person suggesting I was âattacking you personallyâ is not correct. My reaction was to your comments about people being rude when they expressed their disappointment at the delay. But you are right, intentions usually conveyed by tone or body language donât translate in forums. This thread became pretty toxic but I did not see that coming when I made the comment. Apologies for any offense caused.
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I think this is just it. I find the sense that weâre just not getting the whole story about whatâs going on simply frustrating.
This bugs me way more that the delay. Primarily because weâre entrusting our designs to the Company at infinitum.
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If @dan said they have allocated $1.5M of real dollars (which he said but obviously we canât prove) to the material gift with 10,000 units sold, one could logically assume they are giving away $150ish worth of material at their wholesale cost, not retail value.
I am not sure why you think glowforge owes you some exuberant reward for shipping later than expected. In any case, itâs clear that you donât believe in the company, you are on a time line they canât meet, and feel that their make good offer was inadequate.
So cancel.
Thatâs how adults express their discontent, by taking their business elsewhere. This childish thread being allowed to continue is only further testament in my eyes to glowforge being apologetic of the delay, as they let people throw tantrums.
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