No.
If we are unhappy with something, we shall say it. Dialog. Engage. Expess. Not run away. That is what this platform is for and if you think that Dan & co will close down a thread when they don’t like what people are saying, perhaps you think they are a somewhat fascist. I do not think they are that insecure.
We all have lots vested in the Glowforge and this company. We have a long road ahead together. I suggest you buckle up and try and enjoy the ride.
Only when people have been rude & abusive have sufficient people flagged enough posts to have threads closed down.
Rational discourse is welcomed, and, I understand that people want to vent their frustration, but, there is enough negativity in the world already that some folks, and, I don’t blame them, would like this to be a fun place to visit. Most, however, will not dignify outright argument seekers, with a response in kind.
I don’t think Glowforge would shut down a thread for people expressing their frustration, but I think the point of all the koolaid drinkers here (myself included) is that you’re talking about remediation for a delay affecting a “not insignificantly large” number of affected people.
There’s been a number of alternative suggestions of how Glowforge handle any sort of recompense, but ultimately it comes down to this: it’s their decision based on what they feel is financially viable and fair, up until you want to make the ultimate decision of cancelling your order.
Glowforge wants to keep you as a customer, and you sound like you want to stay one as well, but I don’t think it’s a realistic expectation of the 1% “non-koolaid” drinkers to ask for a different treatment when (non-statistically) 99% of this public forum are on board with it.
If you suspect the number of upset individuals is under-represented, I’m sure everyone received the same email, so I doubt most don’t know it by now.
We can’t help you. If you want a sympathetic ear of someone that can actually do something, the best way you can kick off that process is by contacting Support and hoping for the best.
The problem with what you call the “koolaid drinkers” (that stuff is bad for you) is that they rarely display a healthy perspective on things. And the problem with blind loyalism is that it can kill you.
My biggest issue is not about materials or any form of apology from Glowforge. I appreciate Dan’s apology. We’re also in the process of developing products and I understand delays as well - though I am disappointed at how they managed it.
What gets my goat is that we seem not to be told the whole story of why there is a delay. Others have pointed out the timeline. And all the ‘we-love-you-Dan-ignore-these-haters’-talk in world does not change that.
Two years ago I backed the Yufu on Kickstarter. A pressure and tilt sensitive Ipad pen long before the Apple Pencil was available. Jon Atherton, the founder, showed what looked like a working prototype during the campaign vid. We were all excited. The backer forum abuzz. Then the fist notice of delay. Then the second. We were promised ‘extras’. Then the dissenters came. And I defended Jon Atherton, telling people to chill and that this is just how product development goes. But the delays kept on coming. And coming. People started getting abusive. Jon Atherton started getting abusive. And threatening. And all the mud slinging was only a red herring because even today, the Yufu is a figment of our imagination. But our money was not.
Do I think Dan is anything like Mr Atherton? Absolutely not. But there is also more at stake here for us all and to me it is a reminder a community such as ours should hold the founder to account in terms of what is really going on. And the reason we were given for a 6 month delay does not inspire confidence in transparency in my opinion.
This thread seems to have polarized the backers. But I think some people here are taking thing way too personal. It’s not. It’s business.
I see what you did there. 
But come on, that’s being overly dramatic. No one is dying. Not to undermine your stance, but that’s something a child would say when they don’t get their soda pop koolaid and they’re flailing on the ground crying.
What gets my goat is that we seem not to be told the whole story of why there is a delay. Others have pointed out the timeline. And all the ‘we-love-you-Dan-ignore-these-haters’-talk in world does not change that.
Are you an investor? Do you own shares of the company? Will you ever? No. You’re a customer, and with that they owe you an answer of when the product is due to arrive so you can make a go/no-go purchase decision. They’ve done that. Hell, they’ve revised that.
But unless you own shares, anything beyond that is privileged information. Privileged. The only legal obligation they have to you is to complete a contract for what you’ve paid for, and failing that, refund you.
You are the one in control here, not them… so unless you cancel, nothing is going to change. Complaining about it to us is only you saying you’re too stubborn to cancel the order despite not getting what you really want: more than they are willing to offer.
I feel bad about your experiences with Yufu. I really really do. If you want an example of my own bad experience, check out the Agent Smartwatch on Kickstarter. It’s a nightmare. But everyone has a choice here that I (and probably you) didn’t have with Agent: cancel and get your money back.
But there is also more at stake here for us all and to me it is a reminder a community such as ours should hold the founder to account in terms of what is really going on.
That’s idealistic, but that’s not business. It sounds to me like you’re throwing the word ‘founder’ out as if he’s the founding father of a nation. 
I like to think Dan would be modest enough to disagree that’s how he feels. I’ll let him decide.
He’s a businessman. An executive in a multi-million dollar pre-purchased lasercutter company, answerable in differing degrees to customers AND investors.
And the reason we were given for a 6 month delay does not inspire confidence in transparency in my opinion.
I hear doubters saying that in the forums, but no one can seem to identify what they want to know that will calm their nerves.
It was the power supply. Powering a laser is a difficult task, they’re a small company and finding a solution by themselves in the time they had was a problem, so they sub-contracted. Once they knew a definitive timeframe of how badly they were off schedule, they let the investors know. Then, once they had answers for how bad the schedule was affected, they brought it to everyone’s attention. That’s all you need to know.
Xabbess, that was a joke… Seriously? Please have a sense of humour…
Dan, that is a figure of speech. And I think you know that.
[quote=“dan_berry, post:47, topic:1937”]
Are you an investor?[/quote]
Yes. And if you bought a GF so are you.
Other than that there is so much selective reading and vigilantism going on here it’s tiring. I am addressing my concerns here and I do not need you to ‘correct’ me any more than you would want me to correct you on your opinions of the delay and how it is being conveyed.
What is unhealthy here is that anybody that seems to question how a power supply was a known issue in December and, seemingly still in March was not a problem, now incurs a 6 months delay. That simply does not make sense and it leads to some distrust. And apparently GF does not have to respond to this particular concern because you all are coming at anybody that disagrees with you with pitch forks and torches.
Again, try and not take things personal. I am not being abusive in any way and I have a right to express my opinion here just like anybody else. If you have useful information to add, by all means I am all ears. But blind loyalty is no more helpful here than it is in a national election.
Amen.
We aren’t investors… We didn’t buy shares, we didn’t put money down to make a financial profit on our investment (which is the definition of an investor).
The definition of a customer however is the recipient of a good or service obtained from a seller/vendor via a financial transaction.
But let’s say we are investors, just for the sake of the argument. We have made an investment (I did for the basic w/o air filter) of $2400. Within 2 years after ordering you will receive your investment back in the form of a Glowforge which its reselling value (if in closed packaging) should be close to the $4000 msrp Glowforge states on their website. Until the moment this “payment” happens, you have an option to withdraw all the money you’ve invested without any loss (you only won’t receive your interest during this period).
All in all, I think investors would be happy by making these types of investments, as there is close to none financial risk and it is actually quite short term for an investor to gain his investment back with a 66% increase of value within 2yrs I think.
No one is dying.
I know it’s a figure of speech (obv, since no one is dying), and I understand many people are upset about the situation, but if you want to rationally discuss it in an open forum then it behooves you to keep your emotions in check. You’re talking to us, not to Support, so I can only speculate that was your intention.
We’re talking about two different objects we’re investing in. You seem to be talking about investing in a Glowforge laser, but emotionally you’re demanding information about Glowforge Incorporated. I’m talking about a laser, emotionally separate from the company.
I am addressing my concerns here and I do not need you to ‘correct’ me any more than you would want me to correct you on your opinions of the delay and how it is being conveyed.
By all means. I’m not saying you shouldn’t. It’s a free country, depending where you live.
You call it ‘correcting’ when you say it to me, but I call it ‘stating my equal right to an opinion’ when I say it to you. Complain to the people who can do something about it, not to the people who cannot. You can’t expect it one way but not the other.
What is unhealthy here is that anybody that seems to question how a power supply was a known issue in December and, seemingly still in March was not a problem, now incurs a 6 months delay.
What is unhealthy here is when blind product fanaticism leapfrogs from having a relationship with a product to having an imagined intimate relationship with the company that made it.
That might make sense if “anybody” here was a stock holding Class A investor. Not as purchasers.
Again, try and not take things personal. I am not being abusive in any way and I have a right to express my opinion here just like anybody else. If you have useful information to add, by all means I am all ears. But blind loyalty is no more helpful here than it is in a national election.
Don’t worry about me, my emotional state is good.
Just because I flirt with the barista making my coffee doesn’t mean she owes me anything more than a coffee.
If she flirts back, that’s great and all… but I don’t go around telling everyone she’s my girlfriend.
Sometimes joking is difficult to isolate out of a conversation that involves no facial expressions, no body language and no voice intonation. I do have a sense of humor. T’wasn’t me that flagged you. Someone else saw your post before I did.
Geez, @Duality, I didn’t flag you either. But I should’ve. That’s twice, now, that you’ve attacked @Xabbess rather personally. Lay off.
Plenty of folks have managed to express dissatisfaction respectfully on these forums.
I have written and deleted plenty of responses to plenty of opinions on these forums in the last few days. I consider whether my wording could be taken as offensive, and whether my jokes will be seen as jokes or whether they will be taken as mean-spirited attacks, or just how they might be interpreted.
You might try that strategy. Some of your posts may be interpreted as being highly offensive, not in content perhaps - but certainly, in tone and word choice.
Thank God someone who can see things clear. Thanks for the new perspective. You said it better than I.
Ok so, let me start by saying I do manufacture and I do it internationally. I was just at a trade show yesterday and I saw a great new Laser 3d printer cutter like GF for about the same amount, it did the work in a 1/4 of the time and is working just fine.
Also have 3 sizes of this and the small unit can drop the bottom down up to 12 inches… The system was at the Taiwan automation trade show in Kaohsiung I will try to attach some photos.
My point is why can’t GF do it? Others have a and have stronger lasers. It has a choice of a 80 or 100 watt laser they have more but here is a link to the one I was playing with http://3axle.com/dcseries-lasermarkingandcuttingmachine/dc-6040-h-laser-cutting-engraving-airport/
@dan_berry an powering a laser is not really difficult matter of fact go to any industrial show and you will see lots of examples.
Power supply issues are non issues.
Well that is correct and not to be a lame and research a replacement would be foolish. I already found a replacement and have got to use said replacement.
No one is throwing a tantrum, we are pointing out facts. How about you point out facts as to why the delay? Also tell me why they can not use a power supply from one of the many other systems on the market with higher output?
This is what we are talking about not being sheep and blindly follow with our money at risk!
Agree
Please show me your electrical engineering certificate that indicates you’re qualified to say that, as a matter of fact.
As they should and should be explaining why the delay in a common part on the market.