I really appreciate all the detail in this update. And the black from tray looks great. Waiting another few months because the rate of manufacturing is ramping up slowly, well, presumably when I get the GlowForge it will be so awesome it will drive such concerns away.
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That sounds like a great keychain engraving. Something to wear with pride.
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This is a topic I can tell you with a fair bit of data: many, many of them do not. Many more who do have forgotten it.
Like anything, you can say ārefunds are availableā in a caring way or in a dismissive way. And like anything, it can be read in a means other than it was intended.
But Iāll always say it (and I encourage others to say it in a caring way) when I think the listener might need to hear it, because the alternative - that they think their hard-earned dollars are being held hostage, and I could fix that with a phrase - is far worse.
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Very thoughtful post. We have a phenomenal finance team - our COO has done this for publicly traded companies - who use tools like this and more to make sure we preserve maximum cash flexibility.
I donāt mind you asking at all. Itās a lot of money, and you have every right to be thoughtful and careful about where it goes and what happens to it. I have a hard time answering because if I was uncertain about trusting someone, I donāt feel any better about them after they say āNO REALLY YOU CAN TRUST MEā. 
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Could you shoot a note to support@glowforge.com? Theyāll take care of it right away - at least as a digital copy if they canāt get you a paper one.
(It may take a day, because we purchase every copy - digital and paper - from the publisher, because while I wrote it, they own the rights to it.)
I couldnāt agree more. Crowdfunding is littered with the corpses of those who ran out of money or shipped terrible products. Caution and concern is justified.
I am really happy with how it looks!
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I was head of Engineering at my last job (dont be impressed, there was only 3 of us in the department LOL) and itās a relatively small company so I was directly involved with Purchasing, Finance and vendors in getting those tools going there. The ever-changing production schedule however, made things difficult because they would change the order of deliveries on us, and each project was usually a different make/model of the product that requires differing parts and materials! Fun fun! hahaha. So glad Iām out.
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Danās book really made a big shift in me with being comfortable with the delay. I learned a lot about him and startups. Because the refund aspect of the crowdfunding has been transparent from the very first (many of the first posts on this forum were issues with orders and a few refunds) I wasnāt worried about losing my money. I have no idea what kind of bankroll the founders are sitting on personally and how much of their own equity is in the project but Iād say that they might bring a good base for develooment. Something we havenāt really discussed. And then there is their experience of bringing products to market. then the first twenty hires made me giddy at times, and envious, at what was going on up there.
I made a trip to Seattle and had a lot of time during the drive to think about these things. Then there was the participation of the Regulars on the forum that I got to know and get amazed at their knowledge and continued urging and participation in this project.
I have had doubts about their ability to pull it off in the time they allotted. And the delays happened. But even with the delays there were steady indications that they were working toward making this happen. The beta units and demos really helped, but always made me wonder about the completion of the full feature set.
When I got the pre-release, I said I would be happy with it as my forever Glowforge. I certainly would have gotten my initial discounted payment worth out of this machine. Now that I have experienced the improvements in the production units and the improvements of the software, Iām very content.
Iād like to do two sided cutting more easily and Iād like to do low power. However, to take advantage of these things means I would have to do twice as much design work as I am doing now.
Anyone waiting on the Glowforge: try not to let the delays preoccupy you. Get busy designing stuff. Throw some ideas out on the forum. The pre-release I have hasnāt near achieved its potential. I have lots of leather stuff to do. I have so many ideas. Iām just burned out on the time it takes to design stuff. I just have a hard time making myself do it. Luckily people are giving me projects to do now and I am getting a little inspiration from them.
Iām also kicking around going to Des Moines to the State Faire and do a three day demonstration setup at the cultural arts center. Thatās keeping me focused.
So hereās to all those who are sticking it out: you will be very happy with what you can do. Your pleasant surprises will be much, much more than your disappointments at what it canāt do.
And those who are asking for refunds or considering it, or getting queried/nagged/teased about the long wait: this is all about agency. Agency is an amazing concept. For many centuries, the philosophers talked about free will but it was so often without content and context. Way too theoretical. The modern way of talking about it is called agency. Agency is identifying the degree you have power to change within a system. Many, many issues that cause conflict can be traced to an imbalance of agency: some people have the cards, and some people donāt. Some people have a big pot to bet with and some people have nothing to be with. When we feel foolish or helpless, often it is because our agency has been taken away or compromised. Agency is very important in American culture. If you have none, then you are a sucker.
But agency can take many, many forms. In situations where it seems that people donāt have any agency, we can be very surprised at the creativity in which human beings find ways to be empowered and not mere victims.
Often agency is discovered by changing the narrative: many of the forum regulars have had real agency and impact on the development of the Glowforge. that the forum is so robust, and that the pre-orders have some type of agency is demonstrated by the developments concerning replacing the tube.
For over a year, my family just rolled their eyes when I talked about the Glowforge. They didnāt quite understand, but I kept sending them emails and texts of stuff that was going on in the forum. Now I have quite a few people following the forum now because they have found things that are of interest to them.
My last thing is that I just invite anyone with doubts or concerns to start a post on a topic that is near and dear to them that the Glowforge would make easier or better. Get that first post or first topic under your belt and see what happens.
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When to say āyou can get your money backā
āSomeone says they are afraid theyāve lost their money.
āSomeone questions how their money is being managed at GF.
āSomeone says something that indicates they are not familiar with the refund policy.
When NOT to say it
āSomeone complains that the existing features fall short of the advertised features.
āSomeone complains that itās taking far too long to get their machine.
āSomeone expresses doubts that some features will ever be achieved.
āSomeone says something irritating, unrelated to the security of their investment.
āYouāre tired of hearing from a person and want to ānudgeā them away from the forum.
ā¦when offered to someone not questioning their investment.
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I would be most grateful if you did remind folks of the refund policy in the three instances you describe. Iāll remind folks of the refund policy if I think thereās any chance that knowledge would benefit them, aware that Iāll often be wrong.
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Iām glad @dan and the form cleared up my questions and concerns. I didnāt think being a regular would apply to shipment of production units (I knew it applied for beta testers). I will say that, although the whole āyou can ask for a refund at anytimeā sounds like a cop out, itās pretty reassuring to know that you CAN still get a refund (at least to me it letās me know Iām not being scammed). Iāve backed a Kickstarter campaign before and asked for a refund after multiple failed delivery dates, but got denied because essentiallyā āmy money is already considered spentā. Yeah delays suck, and Iāve definitely been irritated/irate/saddened/etc, but Iāve waited this long so no use in giving up now for something I know will be worth it in the end. I am glad though that production units are being shipped. I live on the west coast and ordered the first few days in October, so Iām keeping my fingers crossed that I get that glorious email.
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Please forgive me if this has been asked (I did search), I have a concern regarding shipping:
Do we know what carrier(s) will be used for shipping in the United States and, more to the point, what the plan is if the item arrives dropped, defective, and/or otherwise damaged from shipping?
Thanks!
Edit: I see that itās UPS now from re-reading (and from markevansā reply (thanks!))
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Short answer: they are using UPS at the moment. If you get yours and it is damaged contact support. The worst so far was a box that was pretty mangled with the power cord missing. The team authorized the user to use another cord of known origin and then overnighted them a cord.
It looks like there are going to be more setup problems than shipping damage problems though. They have made setup stupid simple but it is easy to get over excited and not follow the directions. I did this with my PRU and just had to slow down, back up and actually follow the directions. Then, everything went swimmingly.
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well it mentioned in the email it is a 70lb 2 person liftā¦ for the box with just the laserā¦ it would be a bit more of an ordeal to get it on a plane than taking it as excess baggageā¦ and then, well, we have all seen the oh so delicate and graceful ballet that those who load cargo on to planes perform when half ass throwing gingerly loading all of our valuables.
At least if it breaks in shipment that will be on them and not you. 
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I have heard this story too from a few friends, and they all told me get my money back and get out. That would so suck. Around that time is when Glowforge said they were not spending our money, but using investor dineroā¦and @dan had started giving pretty detailed and legitimate if not boringly necessary updates and I realized no one blowing smoke up my rear would have come up with such detailed and micro specific points to make, soooo I called it legit. Dan had me at micro specific boring updates.
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yeah i still get flak from a couple of people regarding this. iāve never been concerned about the money really, given their refund policy and vc funding, as you mentioned. i definitely donāt bring it up unprompted any more, though i often talk to my so about āwhen the new laser finally comesā¦ā; iām certain heās sick of it by now 
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If youāre talking about showing up to the airport and listing as baggage your glowforge, I believe most airlines limit of liability for value on baggage is significantly less than the cost of a glowforge or even paying the airline for freight.
Not for $3000 (or $5000 for a Pro). They donāt keep that much liability.
But theyāll be happy to give you a coupon to send some other piece of baggage for free 
Stealing this for future use
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Oh let me tell you about packing foam! Iāve learned more about packing foam than I ever wanted to know. 
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That reminds me of a fun conversation with one of our payment providers who asked us to please change our terms to NOT actually commit us to delivering a product. āBut thatās what Kickstarter doesā they saidā¦ āAnd it would make thing so much easier from an accounting standpointā¦ā
Those low expectations are probably why so many folks are surprised to hear that we actually do owe you a product, and that we actually will give you a refund if you decide you donāt want it.
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