Discussion of October 2017 update

Everything Else
669

Lol - the sad thing about this poll is that it basically vindicates the Glowforge approach. String people along and they’ll be mad at you but they’ll stick with it. Be honest and no one will order.

Personally, I haven’t cancelled because I think I cost them more money if I don’t cancel than if I do.

I actually want and can use the unit whenever I happen to get it; the delivery time doesn’t matter that much in terms of its usefulness, because for me it’s a toy. So it’s still in my personal interest to take the machine. But I think there’s also a social responsibility not to reward misbehavior, and I would have felt obligated to cancel at least a year ago if I’d thought doing so would be anything but a favor to Glowforge.

Their initial campaign was obviously calculated to create the impression that they were nearly done with their development, when in fact they were basically nowhere. The video was designed to look like a demo of at least a prototype, and really more like one of their early pre-production units. Anybody who thinks they weren’t intentionally leading people to wrong conclusions about their status is crazy. It’s still morally a lie even if they didn’t say it directly.

I doubt that they could possibly have believed that they could meet their claimed shipping dates back then. I’m not sure they could rationally have believed that they could get within six months, no matter how inexperienced they were (and, by the way, they made a lot of direct claims about how experienced they were). But it’s possible they could have been that naive. So I can’t call that part a definite lie, the way the implied project status obviously was.

They also failed to disclose what I think are huge product drawbacks, but that’s more forgiveable. I think they may honestly think the cloud architecture is a good thing. And their ridiculous secrecy is just the way business culture in general has convinced itself things have to be; it’s nothing unique to Glowforge.

Just for the record, I have never thought, at any time during all of this, that they were an outright fraud in the sense that they were never going to deliver the product. And I have every reason to believe it’s a good product. That’s not the problem.

Unfortunately, the real reward that they got out of the early orders was the ability to wave around the “biggest crowdfund ever” banner in front of investors and the public, and there’s no way to take that back. I don’t think they’re making any profit at all from the early presales, especially with the discounts and whatnot.

By the way, Quebec, Canada, Basic, ordered 2015-09-25, current estimated delivery date 2018-02-22. [Corrected order date on edit]

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670

You’re right. Apparently I don’t know how to use the forum right.

671

Which is just another of their “alternative facts”. It WAS NOT crowdfunded, no matter how many times they say it. These were all PRE ORDERS.

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672

Reposting directed to the right person.

Unfortunately international shipments start later than domestic, and some countries will take longer to start than others based on both logistics and regulations.

On what date do you expect to ship (by your weird definition) your first production unit to a buyer outside of the USA? Equivalently, what’s the earliest “anticipated ship date” being displayed to any non-US customer who logs into your Web site? Do you anticipate shipping (by any definition) any production units whatsoever to buyers outside of the USA before February of 2018?

673

Ahh, you get yours the days before I get mine… I mean theoretically get yours the day before I theoretically get mine… until they delay them again.

I totally agree with sticking it to them and forcing them to deliver but honestly, it’s cloud service and parts availability which really worry me at this point. I have no doubt I’ll get my unit, probably later rather than sooner but I’ll sure I’ll get it. I also think it’ll be amazing when it works. I just really worry what happens when I no longer have any leverage with GF and they can paywall basic software upgrades, downgrade support for small bugs / obsolescence issues etc. etc.

My big question now is: can I trust this company?

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674

Yes, I agree that this is likely the case and I have been a believer in the spreadsheet from the beginning. It has been a much better indicator of the actual timeline than the emails. I understand the need for Glowforge to guard some information but it is nice to have the spreadsheet which, even as a subset of information, has provided me the ability to have somewhat realistic expectations. I was hopeful that I would get it by the end of the year, but now it look like I’ll get an email in Jan and possibly have a unit in hand by March. I think it is actually likely that they’ll deliver early on that estimate this time. I know that goes against what we have been trained to expect, but it seems like they are actually ready to speed up production rather than having it stalled.

675

Not even a little bit.

I likely will keep my order, but at least as much because that it would likely help them out if i canceled it as it is because i have any sort of faith in the company.

I really don’t know what this company can do at this point to restore my belief in them.

676

I ordered on day 19 and I’m also in Canada. My date is Mar. 15 and end of May for my air filter. I’ve been really patient through all the delays. But now I’m mad. From the sounds of things, the Canadian customers are now going to get their units AFTER people who ordered outside the 30 initial campaign. Is that right @dan? How do you justify that? And please don’t tell me that I’m able to cancel for a full refund. I know. I don’t want to hear that again.

677

But see, if you REALLY don’t trust them, why on earth would you keep your order? That’s the point of my previous post. Right now, you’ve got them because you hold the leverage. They can hack you off but they can’t stop you leaving just yet. Once you get your unit though and they’ve delivered on the pre-orders, well then you have no leverage. And, if you don’t trust them then that’s the last thing you want, because then they’ve got you.

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678

I believe our shipping estimate to start international deliveries is Feb 1.

Note that different countries are on different schedules based on logistics and compliance details from country to country.

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679

So not one to complain but like most of you on here we have waited for this wonderful machine to fulfill our imagination and skills. I ordered on the last day of the campaign and had all the patience, even thru all the set backs and delays. I was excited to find out that we all were goin to get our pre orders by the end of oct. I even went to the maker faire in New York to see all the wonder that is the glowforge with the giddiness of a child looking at his favorite toy. But today I received the email. My forge won’t be shipped till Feb 2018!! Another 5 months down the line…frustration is now a thing. I love that they are adding perks for waiting (20$ month credit and proofgrade extras) but as to this added delay thought there would be a little extra or since they were saying oct would be the month!! I’m still goin to wait but with a little less pep in that step…oh the saddness

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680

From the sounds of things, the Canadian customers are now going to get their units AFTER people who ordered outside the 30 initial campaign. Is that right @dan? How do you justify that?

Since I just got done castigating Dan, maybe I shouldn’t answer for him, but I think the basic answer is that they can’t sell the product into Canada until it’s approved, so they can’t put Canadian customers into the delivery queue until then. There’s simply no way they can ship the units to Canada, so they might as well ship them to the USA. It’s not like they can stop the line or store a lot of finished units, nor would it benefit anybody if they did.

And their best guess for the approval date is presumably sometime in early to mid February.

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681

Yes. Our compliance consultants believe Canadian logistics and compliance will be among the slowest to finish. We’ll work as hard as we can to bring that in, and as soon as we finish, will start shipping there.

…actually @jbash’s answer is probably more clear than mine.

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682

Somewhere along the way, it went from shipping in October to now I am being told Jan. I am to the point now that I believe in Jan, I will be told May. I understand running behind but telling us October then 8 days into October when you state you are shipping - to suddenly tell me Jan 2018 is a bit upsetting. I am a school teacher looking to use this to create income after retirement. I qualify for a retirement bonus if announced before end of Dec. That could have been simple decision if my unit was in my hands. I do not want to announce retirement and face yet another delay in the spring.

Order Date Oct 23,2015
Glowforge Basic Jan 26, 2018
Air Filter May 24, 2018

683

To add my info to the info pile:

Pro order, USA shipping, order date: Oct 21, 2015.
Glowforge estimated shipping date: Nov 03, 2017.
Air filter estimated shipping date: May 06, 2018.

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684

Sucks to be in Canada…
Order Placed 2015-09-24 (R294660714)
… our schedule since June has been to get orders placed by 10/26/15 to you by the end of this month.

Delayed / updated delivery dates:

Glowforge Pro Feb 20, 2018 (WHATTTTT??)
Air Filter May 27, 2018

Like everyone I am tired of delays and excuses but waited so long already that they know we will still wait…

685

Just disappointed. Like extremely. So many things I want to say. Just going to point out for the amount of money I spent on that machine I sure do feel like I’m getting the runaround. I’m being told it’s another 6 months before mine ships… ANOTHER 6 MONTHS. Unacceptable! But my only option is to just cancel my order, not how you treat your customers especially if they have spent that much on a product. Get it together this is ridiculous I’m tired of getting excited just to be disappointed again!

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686

It has now become clear to me that your company is far too small to manage these orders. All the things that should have been done in parallel are being done in series. Looks like air filter development started long after the GF and it looks like its production will be after the GF orders have finished. So it looks like they will be built on the same line as basic and pros. It also looks like OS approvals only started recently due to all your engineers fire fighting and each regulatory regime seems to be sequential.

If you were really going to deliver all our machine in October all these things needed to be done in parallel so you needed a lot more engineers. Same with the software development.

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687

At the risk of being pedantic, you already have confirmation that it’s going to drag in to 2018.

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688

I find it extremely disappointing that we get more accurate information by piecing together other people’s stories via a forum post than we get from the company itself.

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