We also have a handy little Glowforge icon next to our faces.
3rd party equipment like that is outside of our design and test parameters, so we recommend against using it. We have successfully used UPSs with our Glowforge units, but the ones we used were $2,000 each. We only have a hundred or so hours of usage on them so we don’t even have enough data to recommend those. (I asked if someone had the brand but haven’t heard back yet).
You’re welcome to do whatever you want with your Glowforge, but should you plug your Glowforge into a device that damages it, the damage wouldn’t be covered under your warranty.
Except the staff label and the little Glowforge icon aren’t reliable to identify all staff. Not all staff are labeled staff that way, and only a minority have the icon. (Data collected from the https://community.glowforge.com/about web page.) The only sure way is to click on the person’s icon and check for the staff labeling there. (And what is the half black - half white shield supposed to indicate? That icon seems to label staff as well, and seems to be reliable.)
So a ups no not unless you get a large (computer closets sized at a minimum) most the retail models can only do about 800watts and that’s pushing it.
Also gf has indicated not to use a surge protector as they have already included suppression in the power supply of the gf so a extra suge suppressor has been noted to cause power delivery problems
I’ll check names and profiles more carefully from here on out. I still think my original question needs to be answered: Could you tell us more about the “internal protection”?
For example, if a power surge breaks that protection without being plugged in to a 3rd party device, what’s the fix for that? Is that a user-replaceable part, or does it require service? Is it covered by the warranty? What about whole-house surge protection installed at the panel?
I can understand why running any large appliance off a UPS might not work well, but what about external surge protectors?
Completely based on life experience and not speaking for the Other Dan, but I think that until such a point that Glowforge Inc offers replaceable parts in their catalog, you’re going to be forced to send the entire unit back to Glowforge for servicing.
If they start selling individual PSU units like they sell lens replacements and shipping boxes, then presumably they’ll also offer replacement service instructions to go with the replacement PSU when it becomes available.
To add to what was said here. Simple question. I have a decent surge protector and really unreliable power at my apt (sudden spikes when it goes down and the power co. fixes it) that have already knocked out two TV’s that weren’t plugged into a surge protector. What is the harm in putting what is basically a glorified fuse in front of my GF to break before it’s internal power supply does? Especially considering the whole unit would have to be sent back apparently. Not talking battery backup, just straight surge protection. This seems like a really weird thing that’s not being answered straightly. I love my GF, so I just want to keep it around as long as possible.
A one size-fits-all answer isn’t easy because people have different expectations of what they’re trying to protect equipment against, and no one here can sample the quality of an owner’s line voltage to offer anything but general advice.
Some owners wish to guard for surge suppression when power grids fluctuate in capacity. Others wish to guard against voltage spikes, such as when a lightning strike hits the power grid. One tends to be a slow effect with lower voltage increases, the other a faster effect with significant voltage increases.
But regardless of what is happening with an owners power source, surge suppressor only prevents the averaged peak AC voltage from going above a certain threshold. Repeated micro-transient spikes (in the order of milliseconds) can go much higher, and chip away at the longevity of the unit over time … all relatively unprotected by a surge suppressor.
UPS have filtering and batteries for protection against both long-term and micro-transient spikes, but some of that protection comes at a cost of how much peak power draw they can provide.
What is the harm in putting what is basically a glorified fuse in front of my GF to break before it’s internal power supply does?
But… a fuse doesn’t provide any spike protection. And it doesn’t offer the same protection as surge suppression. A fuse has more in common with a circuit breaker than a surge suppressor. It’s this misconception that they are all the same thing which is the problem.
Awesome, thanks for the info. I guess my only question would be in regards to this:
“But regardless of what is happening with an owners power source, surge suppressor only prevents the averaged peak AC voltage from going above a certain threshold.”
So in such an event as described, would it not be good to have something (UPS, surge suppressor) plugged in to the wall before the GF power supply?
Also if nothing would really do any good, UPS or otherwise, how would it actually harm the GF power supply? As the GF folks seem to be implying, seeing as they recommend against anything but plugging the unit directly into the wall.
Honestly, if it were me given the situation you described:
I’d get a UPS in the 850VA range if it occurs frequently, and you could probably get away with less if it’s infrequent and you can immediately shut down the Glowforge. If you are using the GF (drawing lots of power) at the same time the power grid ‘snaps’, that could make the damage even more expensive to fix.
I’m not saying a UPS is a bad choice. I don’t think using any protection is. I don’t think a surge suppressor is a bad choice either, if your power is relatively stable and clean to start with. If it’s more or less clean (like most major cities), you probably don’t need much anyways, so a $15 surge suppressed powerbar is a good investment.
Dan’s demurring was a necessary disclaimer of legal obligation in using third-party equipment, not one of offering technical advice.
All he’s implying is that if you purchase and apply protection – hoping it will guard against your self-diagnosed power problems, and you don’t understand what the problem you’re attempting to guard against is – Glowforge can’t be expected to warranty damage from someone suckered into a surge protector that claims “$100,000 Insurance Protection” on the label. Or if the surge protection is ‘worn out’ due to age/neglect.
Hi Dan, a lot of your information on this thread is quite on target, but I think you are here confusing Power Conditioning with Surge Protection.
Power conditioning (or voltage regulation) is what attempts to maintain a consistent RMS (average) AC voltage level as well as filtering noise from the line. Such conditioners also tend to include Surge Protection as well.
The typical surge protector power strips that the lay person normally associates with the term use MOVs (Metal-Oxide Varistors) to shunt high voltage transients to ground. These devices operate an nanosecond speeds.
There are a couple of things people must know about such power strips:
To be effective, the outlet they are plugged into must have a proper ground connection (wiring in many older homes will not have proper ground even if the outlets have been changed to have ground prongs).
MOVs wear out over time–quickly during major spikes, slowly combatting minor spikes.
Thus it is good to have surge suppressors that have lights indicating that they are protecting (usually indicating both good MOVs and proper ground connection).
I have a whole house surge suppressor in the electrical panel. Such a device protects from spikes entering from the main power line. It also protects devices on separate circuits (served by different breakers) from spikes created by other devices in the home. For example, if you have heavy inductive loads–say a big electric motor–that can cause spikes when it is turned on or off. But it will not protect devices on the same branch as that big load. Thus, using a separate suppressor for sensitive equipment on that same branch would be good.
Thanks, I appreciate that. You’re right, I’ve been over-simplifying for brevity. It’s a complex issue depending on the power demands, which is a whole other battle. I was just choosing to generalize power conditioning in together with surge suppression.
Case in point: an industrial workspace will not have the same situation as a home unit.