Is this the forum category to whine and moan in?

#21

okay-inigo

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#22

Is no one going to mention that the BtM section isn’t visible to non-GF users? Unless GF changed that while I wasn’t looking, the BtM section isn’t publicly visible but the entire rest of the forum is. Also, the whole idea that GF setting are safe is trash. Given the wrong svg, practically any setting can light a fire on any material.

Edit: I was wrong about the section being private. Thanks @jbv for setting me straight!

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#23

The BtM section is visible to the public without logging into the forum.

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#24

… quite some time ago.

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#25

Haha I never really had a need to check that since I have a login.

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#26

Glowforge’s house, Glowforge’s rules. It’s that simple, regardless of the reasoning.

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#27

It can be that simple if you want. But I’d hate to use that same logic and say, “It’s GF’s machine, take it or leave it,” and not encourage users to make suggestions for improvement to the machine itself. GF has done a good job of fixing issues, improving GUI usage and adding features, much at the behest of this very user community. Quite a lot of product improvement benefiting both GF and the larger user community has been as a direct result of our feedback. Why wouldn’t I want to apply that same opportunity for improvement to the very forum that drives much of the ecosystem? The reasoning is just as important as any other hardware decision that we often question or suggest upon… and as things evolve and user needs change, reasoning can become outdated. Just because something was built one way doesn’t mean it should stay that way.

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#28

My suggestion then would be to make a post in #problems-and-support with your request. That’s where requests go. While there has been a certain amount of debate over this, I can’t recall anyone putting in a request for it to changed.

Be sure to let them know why it would be beneficial to you. They like specific use cases rather than, “please do this.”

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#29

I hear your point, and used to hold the same view. (And used to post in my typically self-assured way about it) I wonder if you’ll hold that view once you’ve had more time to spend on the forum… my take on it has changed considerably; there have been many times where GF’s transparency has surprised me, many times where features and discussions that encouraged/facilitated non-PG material use were created/furthered by the GF team.

In the end I’ve come to believe that while I’m sure GF wants to sell PG materials as much as possible and that their business model does include PG sales, it’s not driving the BTM settings discussion like I used to think. GF staff (and especially @dan) has just been too focused on making the forum a useful and welcoming community for me to hold that view any more.

IDK. I’m as suspicious as the next guy, maybe more. Even still, I kind of doubt that I’m the first person to change my mind on this issue.

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#30

I concur. All my interactions here have been fabulous. Sorry if I gave the impression otherwise!

My only point was that the legal argument is 100% a fable. There’s just no rational legal reason. Insurance is a useful invention, and it’s pretty clear that GF has been very proactive (including with a warning in the software itself, very time you try to print on non-standard materials) about what kind of materials to use. Banning some numbers from one part of the forum has no legal basis that I can imagine.

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#31

I don’t think anyone here is anti-suggestions. Accusations and suspicions, however, fall into an entirely different category. :wink:

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#32

FYI you wouldn’t be violating forum guidelines if you had said that in your opinion or as you understand the law this is the case.

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#33

Perhaps you meant to say, “in my opinion, you wouldn’t be violating forum guidelines…”

I’m pretty sure that just about anything posted on a discussion board is in the writer’s opinion, and my hunch is that everything about the law certainly is.

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#34

No, because I’m not speculating about the forum guidelines.

Be careful not to state opinions as facts. For example, imagine that we posted we were moving Glowforge world headquarters to Antarctica. “I think they said they’re moving to Alaska” is an OK (if incorrect) post, assuming that’s what you thought you heard. “Glowforge said they’re moving to Antarctica, but I don’t believe it”, is also OK. However, “Glowforge is moving to Arkansas” is a post that will need to be flagged and edited, since it states something as a fact which is either a mistake, or speculation disguised as fact.

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#35

a fine point. that’s very clear.

if my opinion as a non-lawyer about the state of the law wasn’t clearly enough labeled, that’s on me. In the future, I’ll use words like ‘I think’.

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#36

Clearly the guidelines were intended to curb unofficial speculation about the company, not to police your belief or any suggestion that your belief is a fact. The sky is green, Glowforge is spelled incorrectly and rules are made to be bent. I’m stating that as fact. Anyone is welcome to flag me.

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#37

Seth, you’re wise about many topics. It’s possible you know more about this than our friendly neighborhood product liability lawyer, too, but just to be safe, I’m going to stick with his advice on this one. :slight_smile:

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#38

Thanks @dan for doing the heavy lifting of being in every corner of a busy forum (in my opinion).

Getting sued is no fun at all, and I’m totally in favor of GF never getting sued.

And in my opinion, it’s correct for a lawyer to argue that it can’t hurt to dot every single i and cross every t just in case, because it apparently doesn’t cost anything.

But it does cost something.

And the good news is that in cases like Thull v. Techtronic Industries Co. Ltd., No. 0:11-cv-02368 (D. Minn.), the jury’s opinion seems to be that when a user deliberately crosses a line (in this case removing a guard), it’s on him or her.

Your forum, your rules. My only point was that there’s a cost to the way you talk about it. The ideal way to not get sued is to not make the thing in the first place, but after that, everything is a compromise.

Thanks for letting people make stuff!

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#39

The irony is that no lawyer will guarantee that taking their advice will prevent you from being sued. Nor will they guarantee that you’ll win. They’re just potentially providing a level of possible legal insulation.

Nothing’s more irritating than following your attorney’s advice and getting sued, going into arbitration or court and losing and having your lawyer shrug his shoulders and tell you that sometimes it’s just the luck of the draw. :man_shrugging:

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#40

but those pucks are so tasty

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