It’s the 90/90 rule. I’ll let folks Google-Fu that, it’s actually kinda funny.
Yeah, it sucks that the delays have taken us all this far, but we’re all still here talking about it so obviously it’s not bad enough to be a deal breaker for any of us. Since we’ve all chosen to hang on, by default we have accepted the terms. What’s done is history and we’re each responsible for our own futures.
Let’s see. What is it Glowforge can do? Taken right from the main page, brief comment on actual functionality, if known.
Design with just a pen - Glowforge’s onboard cameras can cut & engrave directly over top of your drawing. From a doodle to a diagram to a masterpiece, you’re one button away from a finished product. Or, scan drawings and resize, clone, personalize & edit them right in Glowforge software.
Precision Preview - The camera shows the actual material on the Glowforge bed so you can drag around your design with your mouse or finger. Align it perfectly & see what it will look like before you hit print.
3D Autofocus - The lens moves as the laser travels, so you can cut & engrave materials that are curved, uneven, or irregular. Glowforge’s dual cameras measure the thickness of the material to a precision of four one thousandths of an inch.
Recognize materials - Glowforge’s cameras recognize a variety of specially-coded materials, plus your iPhone or laptop for perfect settings without any guesswork. It also supports presets for other materials you use regularly.
Catalog - Personalized designer jewelry. The perfect shoulder bag, with customizable compartments. Lighting, housewares, art, party goods, furniture - no art degree required. The Glowforge catalog lets you buy & print intricate, beautiful designs.
Compatible - Work from your Mac, iPad, iPhone, Android, & Windows or Linux computer with JPG, PNG, PDF, EPS, & a host of other file types from software like Adobe Illustrator, Inkscape, Adobe Photoshop, GIMP, Autodesk, & Sketchup.
Just one plug - Glowforge uses a regular household outlet & connects via wifi. Cooling, fans, & everything else is built in. Use without ventilation for materials like stone & glass, or ventilate out the window for materials like acrylic & leather. Or, add a Glowforge Air Filter & cut anywhere.
Optical Alignment - The dual cameras align the laser head with the frame, with your design, and with your material. Glowforge realigns with every cut and engrave, adjusting timing and position, so every print comes out perfectly.
Precision within a kerf - The laser works by removing a hairsbreadth of material, called the kerf. Glowforge knows this and compensates, so if you draw two puzzle pieces, they’ll fit. Even better, the Glowforge can measure the material thickness so 3D objects slide together perfectly.
3D high-res engraving - Engrave complex, three dimensional curves with 1,000 DPI resolution. To get perfect detail and sculpt with real depth, Glowforge can carve away material with multiple passes, each one focusing more deeply than the last.
Safe for schools - Under US Food & Drug Administration regulations, Glowforge Basic is categorized as a Class 1 laser, like a DVD player, so no special precautions are required to use it. The Pro model is Class 4 device like other lasers, and requires additional precautions.
Air Filter upgrade - The unique Glowforge Air Filter lets you put the Glowforge anywhere, no matter what material you’re cutting. It snaps right under the Glowforge and makes it just 7" taller. It’s $750. Alternately, you can use the Basic model near a window with the included duct.
So there are a couple promised details needing the software to be completed, but the known limits are software, not hardware, so it is reasonable to expect those to continue to be resolved, and the rollout of those features would be very smooth as it is all cloud-based.
Overall, the only feature that I know was not active in last communication was continuous realtime autofocus, and that is a software thing, not hardware.
Things not originally promised that have been added (not-exhaustive list)
No, I say they are performing, and continue to produce and improved. I will not conflate optimism, even misplaced or unreasonable in retrospect, with deliberate, planned, or conscious deception. A lot can change between expectations and reality, especially on timeline, when you are creating something entirely new and bringing that to production for market.
Not seen this accurately align with the drawing. You should be able to put in a drawing and cut it out. Not seen an accurate example of that yet.
Not seen perfect alignment yet. All the users say use a jig.
Yes but you have a camera looking at a laser beam and presumably its image is analysed by the cloud. Easy enough to do one measurement, snap the image, send it to the cloud for analysis and calculate the depth. It is very different following a 3D surface in real time. I have no idea how it will do that and the focus appears to be by a small stepper rather than a voice coil, so there will be limits to the rate of change.
I don’t think there are any yet, but it is an easy problem to solve in the cloud with image recognition via deep learning.
I am sure it used to list DXF but that seems to have disappeared recently. Not sure about EPS.[quote=“jason.fuller0, post:44, topic:8376”]
Glowforge realigns with every cut and engrave, adjusting timing and position, so every print comes out perfectly.
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To me that implies you can place an object on the bed and it will align your artwork with it. The only option is to eyeball it with the camera.
I don’t know how perfect detail and sculpt with real depth means art and craft and not a precision tool.
The filter appears to work but no details of what gases it will filter out.
Unfortunately the extras don’t add much for overseas customers and in my case I already bought much better glasses and planned to mill some DiBond strips to cover the slots but I can see they add value for domestic customers.
Nevertheless, it is a very nice laser cutter, but not at all what I thought I was buying.
Perhaps I will have to take up art and craft, or persuade my wife to use it, but she doesn’t seem interested at all and just laughs at my folly.
nope and nope for right now at least. DXF IIRC is in the hopper.
I thought it was on the front page though last time I looked.
Not saying it won’t be there next week, but last I tried those didn’t work…
A fascinating thing I learned from a very wise woman was that the only thing we truly control in a situation is how we react to it. No matter how hard we try, we cannot truly bend the world to our will.
We can howl at the perceived unfairness. We can rage at our perceived mistreatments and our perceived betrayals. We can rend our shirts and cry to the heavens about the perceived terrible treatment we suffer under. And perhaps our martyrdom will make us feel better in some odd way.
Or, we can look at something and say – OK, this is how it is. Is there anything I can actually do, within in my own power, to change it?
If yes, then do that thing.
If no, then make peace with it.
With the GF, one can change how it is in our lives.
One cannot force them to bend to one’s will, to jump to one’s personal vision of what should and should not be.
One can Get A Refund, 100 %, and go try to buy a machine that will do everything one wants it to, exactly as one wants it to, providing one with every bit of the information and details wanted, exactly as one wants. Find that company that makes that machine and shares every bit of that information, and leaps to answer every question.
Then, go buy it, and be happy.
That is the goal, really. To be happy.
presumably you’re complaining about palmercr’s complaining. i mean, i think he goes overboard sometimes but honestly him getting his wishes can also mean a better product for every other customer, for pete’s sake.
not that i in any way need or particularly desire ultra precise 2.5d/3d engraving, suggesting that a laser cutter is better for art than precise work is laughable. the entire point and appeal of a laser cutter is speed and precision…
I’m certainly capable of missing something. I was just going through the list of features against what it has been shown doing. I guess I should list automatic alignment of the passthrough as a separate item from the continuous autofocus.
Now it should be said that some of the features that are there could use dialing in a bit more, which is one of the things the Glowforge team has been working so hard at. With the demonstrated improvements the last 6 months, I’d be surprised if everything wasn’t in place before the last preorder unit shipped. The hardware is there. It is a matter of finishing software details and tweaking some features.
yeah, i think you’re right; this about sums up my feelings about it. i mostly just don’t think people should buy / accept delivery if it’s not doing something they want with the expectation of that changing in the future.
Maybe they will keep tweaking it until it is dead accurate. I must admit I have never worked on something that required years of software tweaking to get accurate. Normally accuracy is limited by hardware, not software deficiencies. They do seem to have made some improvements purely in software though. But there is only so much plastering over cracks in hardware that you can do with software.
One example: the workspace limits. On every CNC machine I have worked on I set them right at the beginning. I never had a diminished workspace that took years of software effort to increase to match the hardware limits. If it can draw a rectangle in the middle of the bed without the head overshooting the corners, why can’t those corners be a smidgen inside the hardware limits?
I think to get the accuracy they advertised they should have used closed loop feedback. It must be very difficult to get high resolution engraving working without because stepper motors lag behind where they should be by an amount dependent on torque. So if you do bidirectional engraving it must be hard to align alternate lines, and we have seen this. Cheap 2D dot matrix printers use encoders to ensure pixels are aligned.
Part of the rather lengthy OED definition:
3 mark (a surface, typically a fabric or garment) with a coloured design or pattern: a delicate fabric printed with roses.
• transfer (a design or pattern) to a surface: patterns of birds and trees were printed on the cotton.
• make (a mark or indentation) by pressing something on a surface or in a soft substance: he printed a mark on her soft skin.
• mark (the surface of a soft substance): we printed the butter with carved wooden butter moulds.
I can totally see that. That does sound frighteningly close to marrying someone and expecting they will change. At the same time, the features right now are great (not perfect, but great), and they are improving it. I look at it as the hardware is capable, and they are working on the software. Even if a feature doesn’t pan out, it is going to change as a whole as updates happen. I certainly wouldn’t be thrilled if the passthrough slot alignment never worked properly. I do plan to use the passthrough, though that automatic alignment for it isn’t the main reason I made my selection.
Obviously, I’m sold on the device, and I’ve seen the improvement as it has been happening. (I wasn’t able to buy initially, no matter how much I wanted to, but I’ve been watching the company since day 1.) Delays have sucked, but each one to now has been about ensuring they were able to make, and continue making, a quality product that performed as advertised. Now we have a slower ramp up to make sure the quality isn’t sacrificed in increased production. (I’ve seen good products destroyed by a quality loss in pushing mass production, so I totally appreciate that, too.) Software is getting dialed in to accurately do things the hardware is capable of doing. I’m not about to try to quash my, or anyone else’s, optimism. I expect it is all going to be there, and it may all be there by the time I get my Pro.
