[POLL] Would you ask a refund NOW if you would be promised you'd be able to buy the GF on the final release date at the same price you paid initially?

I dont think it is having your cake and eating it too. People seem to keep acting like having our money all this time is net neutral provided were refunded in the end. If someone was asking to keep their money AND still reserve a spot from the very beginning, thatd be having their cake and eating it too. But theyve had our money for a long time. I think people are sick of it. Theyve been able to negate risk through the purchases from customers for over a year now. And while many thought they were “investing” in a startup, many others came in later, when all the product info and promotional materials seemed to suggest they were simply buying a product.
They wont ever do it, but if they gave me back my money and still let me keep my spot, Im still out the time i could have used the money, and any sacrifices i made to buy in the first place. Im still not back to normal, but i would feel compensated for the time I let them utilize my money.

36 new topics started and counting on the forum today. It seems everyone wants to start their own topic thinking they are unique in their complaint or support of :glowforge:. Getting pretty fatigued with the forum today. Looking forward to Dan’s Q&A. Aren’t you glad I didn’t start a new topic to say that? Go :glowforge: - Rich

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My recommendation is if you want this risk free, get a refund now and wait until it is released and been on the market for 6 months to a year. Then order one - at whatever the price is at that time. The original discount price is what we get for being there “on the ground floor”.

At a loss as to the outcry about this – it is new tech, and that always has set backs and delays, and they were always clear that the delivery dates were planned and “we will do our best” – none of us got a “deliver on this date or else” agreement. They really don’t owe us a place in line at the original price, or anything except the Glowforge we paid for when it is released – from the “get go” they made it clear that at any time you want out at a full refund of what you paid, they will let you out at a full refund of what you paid.

If any of us could not really afford to wait, I suggest getting your refund now and waiting until it is a fulkly vetted deliverable. I for one am staying right here with the investment/purchase of my pro version.

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I would think about it this way:

Most people paid a heavily discounted price for their glowforges because of the early investment. The current price for a glowforge is ~150% of what initial purchasers paid. Thats a return on investment right there. Even if you dont want the glowforge and you sell it as soon as you get it, youll be making money.

If thats not enough for you and you think you can make more money than that by other means, you can always get a refund and then use the profits made from the refund to purchase a glowforge at a later date.

One way you know you will be making X amount, the other is a bit riskier, but you might be able to pull it off.

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Always the rose colored glasses here. Who is to say it can actually sell at that price point? Especially late next year at that price? Whos to say that it doesnt get bad reviews that drops what anyone can resell it for? Why would i count on being able to make money off the machine that i keep being promised and still dont have? Yes, i know that i got the discount for getting in on it early… thats why i jumped on board… but that was a decision that was weighed based on the little info made available. It got harder stomach that choice when it was delayed months. And now even harder when it is delayed again. I know for a fact that the discounted rate wouldnt have had a chance of convincing me to throw money down if they were honest with their timeline. No way that discount is worth over a year.

Sounds like a good time for you to get a refund…

I dont want a refund. I would have probably gone that route a long time ago when it would have been more useful. If only they had been honest in their updates. Instead, I used up more time waiting on vague updates. Now im trapped in the impracticality of doing anything else but waiting.

Also, as i stated… a refund isnt even appealing as i have already got this much into it.

Glowforge is putting that fee there. it has nothing to do with what the credit card company or credit card processor is charging. That is not how things work - No refund is 16% of the charge.

I think you are looking at that and assuming glowforge was being charged $101.63. I think that is where you made the mistake, and where myself and @sameolegrind are chimming in.

Has someone done a poll that says “If you knew in the beginning that it would take until sometime in 2017 to get your laser, would you have backed Glowforge?”.

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I’m sorry that you are feeling trapped.
I’m sorry that a refund won’t make it ok.
I’m sorry that the schedule won’t satisfy.

Your experience may vary; but when I start to feel uncomfortable about a deal, a price, a salesperson, or a company - and yet go through with a purchase anyway - I am rarely happy with the item I purchased. There’s an emotional twist every time I use it.

I wish that you could feel peaceful and happy about the company and the process. It seems as though you are having a hefty case of buyers remorse. That’s something that grows rather than shrinks.

If you can’t be happy with a purchase, better to step back.

You may not want my perspective. In any case, I wish you peace.

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You don’t need to ask people this, the answer is 100% yes, anyone marking no is trying to make some kind of statement. Why would you ever want GF to just hold onto your money if you didn’t have to? And at the same time, the real world is calling and has never worked this way. You want the benefit of an established brand, with the price perks of a startup.

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That’s why I asked them, and then posted the response to the question that they gave me. They’re being charged for the process. Says right there in the screenshot. I don’t see any reason why they would make that up out of the blue. Sucks for them, but claiming it’s a scheme concocted in advance to a single user for some unknown reason is a bit out there.

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I think their was some miscommunication/misunderstanding in the email. The $101.63 is (almost positively) the transaction fee charged by their merchant services for processing the initial order. The merchant services partner keeps this money whether the sale is completed or refunded after settling. So, on a complete cancel and refund, GF is net out the transaction fee and minor refund processing fee.

The other scenario would be a badly negotiated refund policy with the merchant services provider and that would be the fee based on a full refund of the $4000, and for whatever reason the code to put that page together only calculated the cost of full refund vs partial refund.

Either way, I have no idea why they would show this on any kind of statement to you though. Have never seen that done.

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Then god help us all, because the business deals they are making are horrendous and not even close to what the rest of the market experiences in credit card transactions.

To @jbmanning5’s post @takitus, $100 out of $4000 is 2.5% - That is in line with what a credit card would charge you for processing the transaction. (2-3% is inline with most smaller merchants).

That is a cost of doing business. If they are showing that in the invoice because thats how much they are getting, its immaterial to what you paid for. Its what all business pay for when accepting credit cards.

It should be in no way shape or form $100 from your $600 refund - that is where my objection to that is coming from.

if theyre going to be refunding full glowforge prices, theyre going to be running into full glowforge transaction fees. Then when people decide to pay again, theyll be hitting those fees again, so that means they are getting charged triple. Its just a bad idea to issue everyone refunds.

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@dawime I agree and that’s what I was getting at - That it matches up with the purchase transaction fee. And for whatever reason it’s listed on the refund receipt (which I haven’t seen before). And it’s representative of the entire purchase amount - not partial refund amount.

@takitus Agreed. That transaction fee is gone. Canceling just to charge again is never going to happen. And refunding that amount would probably lead to a merchant services acct being dropped

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The reason I answered no (not that you really care, I’m sure):

I voted ‘no’, because the question doesn’t take into account order fulfillment. I wanted to be first in line – or as close to first in line – ahead of people too uncertain. So is that me trying to make some sort of statement?

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Actually I answered no and I meant no. Not that I’m trying to argue, I agree that the poll was pointless. Many of the posts and comments seem petty pointless at the moment. For me the money is spent. If I got it back I might use it elsewhere. Poor management on my part, I know, but that’s me. I’m content to wait a while longer for what I’ve purchased, but then I know I haven’t been waiting as long as many people here.

My 2 cents (feel free to give me change). I bought an unfinished product from a company that was just starting. They are later than they said they would be, but I have seen enough “proof” of positive movement that I am content. I know others don’t feel the same and that’s fine. Each has their own way of looking at it. If @dan and company weren’t offering refunds I might be a little scared at this point, but I’m not. If a person loses faith then take your money and run. If not, hang around, but all the whining and crying is making me tiered (not talking about you @newbies_234, just rambling now :slight_smile: )

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