@evansd2 please don’t negate what I am saying. If GF was really concerned about their machines being damaged by PVC and HCL…they would make it very obvious. Quite the expensive “newbie” mistake.
So please, if you’re going to bash what I have to say regarding my experiences with my pro and GF technical support - I respectfully ask you to please just observe the thread as what you’re saying is not helpful.
@ambeales1 I will put together a step by step for you to follow and post here. So that anyone else that makes this mistake doesn’t have to battle the community to get some useful information
Don’t be absurd and I won’t have to counter your fear mongering. The notion that Glowforge is intentionally not telling people about pvc risks is demonstrably false and logically ridiculous.
The fact that you would suggest that says a lot about how you think.
You did a good thing by fixing your machine and sharing your process; I think you are the only one who’s done it and posted. Try sticking to that stuff and you won’t run into this sort of time waster discussion.
@ambeales1
The first thing that you are going to want to do is follow this guide to access the part of your GF that contains that corroded circuit board
You will need to learn this eventually as this will need to be done fairly frequently to keep your exhaust fan clean and working properly. You will want to remove the fan to get access to the circuit board behind it.
Next thing - disconnect all the connectors from the circuit board that is behind the fan (don’t worry, they are all different so you will not get confused when you are putting it back together) I would suggest taking pics with your cell phone to follow when you are re-assembling.
Remove the screws from the circuit board and extract it from the GF. You might want to wear some nitrile gloves as the HCL burned my fingertips a little.
Now this next part involves some basic chemistry work…don’t worry - super basic…
Get about 1/2 cup of standard baking soda and add a few tablespoons of water to make a paste. Slather that paste all over the circuit board and let it sit until the outside of the baking soda is powdery again.
Next take a vibrating toothbrush (I used a clean head on my Phillips Sonic Care toothbrush) dip it in the leftover paste and scrub the crap out of the circuit board. Once you have scrubbed the board, rinse in water until all baking soda is removed.
Preheat your oven to 150*F and bake the circuit board for 20 mins (this will remove any excess moisture from the board) and then let sit to dry.
While the circuit board is drying - you are now going to need to get a small water bottle and add about 1/3 cup of ammonia and water until it is full. You will need to spray the whole inside of your GF with the Ammonia water (the ammonia will neutralize the HCL into Ammonia-Chloride - which is a less severe sea salt) wait for the ammonia mixture to dry. You should see small salt crystals in the machine. Be sure to spray all the exposed connections of the GF. The Lid, lights, laser arm connector…everything…you want to be sure to neutralize all the HCL otherwise it will slowly eat away at the machine.
Next you’ll need some “electronics parts cleaner” which you can pick up at any automotive parts store. Not sure what you all have in Newfoundland - but I am sure you have something like it. Take that Electric Parts Cleaner and spray the inside of the machine again (this is an alcohol which will dissolve the salt crystals made by the ammonia).
Take a shop vac and suck out all the excess Electronic Parts Cleaner and let your GF sit for a few hours in a well ventilated area. The alcohol will evaporate leaving a clean machine with NO HCL corrosion on the inside.
Once you machine has set and dried for a good amount of time - reverse this process and install everything just as it was when you started. Get your GF back to what it looked like when you first opened it.
Cross your fingers and pray that you hear the little motors clicking upon startup. If you hear those you have just recovered yourself from a very expensive mistake. You should be proud. Obviously not many people are confident enough to do this.
Thank you Kory.fransen, mistakes happen all the time, Im very appreciative in the help you are giving me. Ive read many many other forums, mistakes ppl has made, this is no different. Sadly its a costly mistake!lol! These posts are here to help people, and by you posting yours, you helped me!
thank you so very very much!!! i feel like Im at wits end and reading negative remarks doesnt help! I know you will help many more!
One other thing that you may want to keep an eye on is your X and Y axis belts. Mine took a beating from the PVC exhaust and eventually had to be replaced. They are inexpensive to order from GF and very east to replace. I ended up having to replace my fairly quickly, but I also cut PVC for over 20 hours before my machine went kaput.
Judging by the amount of PVC you cut - your belts should be ok…for now - but their life is definitely shorter now because of the PVC cuts. Something to consider for the future.
thank you!!
It is not fear mongering when it is possible. Like I said…IF GF was concerned about the damage PVC does to their machine…especially for a new user that may or may not know a lot about lasers and chemical reactions from that laser…shows just how much they really care about the damage PVC does.
It is not that hard to supply a list of usable materials with the GF…especially when they are marketing to beginner users…All their competitors have lists of materials that can and cannot be used with their lasers…Why not GF?
That is all I am saying. No conspiracy theory, not silliness - If GF doesn’t want to provide a warning or a list in a very CLEAR manner about the materials to use and not use (regardless if it is in the manual) that is their choice. But by making that choice, it does not look very good to consumers like me that think about things a little differently than most.
From the manual, pages 7 and 8 as @eflyguy already pointed out:
Materials Safety
Laser-Compatible Materials
“Laser-compatible” refers to materials that can be safely processed with the CO2 laser in the Glowforge unit. Materials that are not laser-compatible may catch fire, emit hazardous smoke and fumes that cannot be controlled by exhaust or filtration, and are a health hazard to you, your neighbors, and your Glowforge printer. For this reason, you must only put laser-compatible materials in the Glowforge unit.Proofgrade™ materials
Glowforge sells a line of Proofgrade materials that are laser-compatible and give top-quality results when used with the Glowforge printer. To learn more about Proofgrade materials, go to glowforge.com/materials .
Laser-compatible materials from other suppliers
Other suppliers like Inventables.com sell material that they indicate is laser-compatible. If you are uncertain, ask the supplier if the material may be processed safely with a CO2 laser.
I’ll repeat and emphasize because (honestly) reading manuals is hard1:
Materials that are not laser-compatible may catch fire, emit hazardous smoke and fumes that cannot be controlled by exhaust or filtration, and are a health hazard to you, your neighbors,
and your Glowforge printer.
If you are uncertain, ask the supplier if the material may be processed safely with a CO2 laser.
That is a very clear warning.
EDIT: Oh wait, it gets even better!
What if I’m not certain whether my materials are laser-compatible?
If you aren’t completely sure that your material is laser-compatible, do not put it in the Glowforge unit.● Some materials look similar to laser-compatible materials, but are different. For example,
vinyl can be mistaken for some laser-compatible materials but emits harmful smoke and fumes.● Materials may have contaminants, coatings, or additives that are not laser-compatible.
For example, certain plywood glues, inks, adhesives, dyes, and paints may not be
laser-compatible.● Some materials can reflect the laser and damage your Glowforge unit. For example,
copper and chrome can reflect the infrared laser light.
They do specifically call out vinyl, so… like, end of discussion.
There is no such thing as a list of every thing you can possibly put in the Glowforge, it’s unreasonable to think that they could provide a definitive list. Did I think it was a bad look for them not to explicitly tell me if I should engrave a rat skull? No, of course not. I took my time and looked up to see if anyone had engraved bone and used sound judgement.
You don’t like the forum, ok fine, maybe searching the forum isn’t something that everyone can do. So, I decided to try google, and searched for “is pvc safe to laser cut” (provided here for you):
https://www.google.com/search?q=is+pvc+safe+to+laser+cut&oq=is+pvc+safe+to+laser+cut
About 31,400,000 results (0.68 seconds) Thirty one million! Google, ever the helpful beast that likes to scrape content, even makes a nice little result card. Check out what it says:
Although polyvinyl chloride ( PVC ) can in fact be cut with laser , the thermal process produces hydrochloric acid and toxic fumes. For this reason, we advise you not to use laser for cutting PVC in order to prevent corrosion of your laser system and to ensure the safety of the machine operator.
Similar results are found when you ask “are vinyl records safe to laser cut”. The big surprise is that if you ask the same thing about fake leather, the top result for me is completely incorrect. The good news is that the rest of the sixty six million results have lots of posts that get it right, fake leather is often pvc, and pvc will kill your machine.
Glowforge cares very much about customer satisfaction, that much is obvious at every turn in the forum and in their public communications. They don’t want people to break their machines, it is a loser all around – unhappy customers take to self-righteous facebook posts and tweets and even come here and raise a ruckus.
On the other hand, they also can’t anticipate all the crazy things we’ll do, nor can they appear to be providing a canonical list because it’ll give you a false sense of security and possibly open them up to liability.
It’s a laser, burning things. Use your noodle.
1 I mean it, I am sympathetic. Reading manuals is hard when all you want to do is go play with the new laser machine. Yet here we are, it’s a fundamentally dangerous tool on some levels, and so caution is absolutely required. We’re adults, let’s act like adults and try to read the manual first. (he says, having himself barely skimmed the manual before trying the laser)
There are a lot of things you say I agree with 100%. But, again, the flipside is - everything we buy has some kind of warning or caution tag attached to it…hair dryers are on example…DANGER - risk of electrical shock if contact with water is made
Now, does the manufacturer really believe that someone would purposefully drop their hair dryer in a sink full of water?? Of course not, but it has happened.
You say GF cannot provide a definitive list…fine, but they market to you that you can virtually cut anything but there is no guidance on what you can’t cut.
Pair that marketing technique with a beginner user that is probably excited about their new machine and barley skimmed the manual…and we end up here…
So, like the hair dryer manufacturer…if they know that PVC will 100% damage the VERY expensive machine they are marketing to beginner users…
Isn’t a general warning like the hair dryer warranted? Or is that to much to ask of a laser manufacturer?
You’re right, we are all adults and we must use our brain…however, providing a vague warning about materials to use and then using that as a cop out when a wrong material is used…again doesn’t look very good.
I love GF. They make a great machine, bit its little things like this that people don’t think are important.
Think of how @ambeales1 felt when their machine quit working because of a simple vinyl cut. Had they had a warning not to use PVC that might have sparked the idea that maybe we need to check the materials we use before we cut…
It’s two sides of a coin. It seems we are on opposite sides regarding this. At the end of the day…it is really up to GF to change…and if they don’t want to, that is their prerogative.
Yeah so see my above edit, they do call out vinyl. this is just going nowhere.
You’ve missed the point. Thanks for you input.
Step Zero: turn off and unplug the machine. (Everybody knows to do this, but it is SOOO easy to forget.)
Step Zero-Point-Five: Wear gloves, goggles, and a mask, and try not to inhale any of the fumes as you work on and clean the machine.
It sucks having a broken machine, but it sucks even more getting injured or poisoned.
Good luck with the repair!
Sarcasm won’t get you far here. I didn’t miss your point, because you never made one. Glowforge does indeed take great pains to warn its users. You have no evidence to the contrary.
I sympathize with both of you, it stinks that you picked PVC as your first projects. That being said, glowforge warns you lots of different ways to stop and consider your actions, so your premise is just baseless.
And beating a dead horse about what materials to use is useless.
Clearly, we’re never going to see eye to eye on this. I see it one way and you another.
I’m going to agree to disagree with you on this topic and move forward - because frankly, we’re never going to agree.
I appreciate your input in this converaation and enjoyed the debate. At the end of the day, I think GF needs to warn people a little better. You think they give enough warning. It is what it is.
I’m over here and you’re over there, but we both have GFs. So, thank you again. I will take into consideration your point of view if and when I post here again.
I think there was likely some surprise when I lasered a banana split back in the PRU testing days 
Lol now I’m just thinking “hmm yeah I wonder if he tried convert to dots on it”
@evansd2, @Xabbess, @eflyguy, @jamesdhatch
So, I wanted to clear the air a bit. There are some things that I want to say and I hope that we can all be chill.
@evansd2
I appreciate your point of view - and after some thought, I do believe that I has some merit. However - I believe mine does as well. I get it - in the manual - plain as day. Be mature - read the manual…but if I have to choose between seeking out the manual myself and setting up and playing with my $6500 laser that I was made to believe could cut almost anything based on the videos posted on the GF website…
In reality - All I am really asking for is a single sheet of paper included in the inside of the GF unit with general WARNINGS that NEED to be made known VERY CLEARLY. I promise you will have a much higher success rate of readability. Nobody wants to read the “however many page” manual right away. Everyone will read a single 8.5"x11" Letter piece of paper of very important things to know right from the very beginning.
For immature and very excited people that spend months of time and savings and - for both what seems myself and @ambeales1 - some debt.
I say VERY MUCH YES to the above mentioned suggestion for the sole reason alone. This is the second time this has happened in 4 months - at least that has been reported on this specific Topic…While it may be small and not very problematic now…How many of these cases has GF seen if the success rate as you say is extremely low? If they have seen A LOT and still chosen not to update how they warn consumers like myself - then maybe what I am saying does make a little more sense…so…which brings me to the FUD you said I was using…
you, yourself used FUD @ambeales1
So - If you are going to accuse your opponent of FUD, make sure you don’t use any in the process of your own argument. Some would say that is hypocritical - I say it is smart debate - Until your opponent figures it out and sheds light on it…then well - it kind of sucks because it discredits everything you say going forward.
Next - Please do not attack me personally . That is a below-the-belt, uncalled for blow - and i completely rebuke it. That was rude. I did not attack you personally in any of the discussion.
You did it in a way to attempt and dismiss my claims and viewpoints on a personal level.
First - you used power words “fear mongering” in your first sentence to grab attention. Then you immediately attempted to discredit my claims, not once…but twice…and then went on to attack how I personally think - This shows desperation in trying to discredit everything I am saying…Not only did you launch two attacks on my viewpoint you also launched an attack on my thought process…And then you went on to compliment me as if to dismiss me.
You claim:
Are you really though? Cause it looks and sounds like you are here to attack and discredit me in which you made a good attempt - However, I have VERY CLEARLY torn it to shreds.
@Xabbess
I want to apologize to you specifically. I am sorry - I know that you were trying to help and you didn’t mean anything other that being supportive of @ambeales1. That was very rude of me and I did not mean to attack you like that.
It is frustrating for me to learn of another that this has happened to when it is - in my eyes - so easily prevented. Again, I do apologize and hope that you can forgive me. If not - I completely understand. Sometimes, people are just too rude…
@eflyguy
I have not completely reviewed our interaction from earlier in the thread - but I do feel like I may have attacked you personally during that discussion. For that, I also would like to apologize and ask for your forgiveness. Again, that was very rude of me and I did not mean to discredit or diminish you personally.
@ambeales1
I really do hope that you get your machine back up and running. I hope that me mentioning you in my posts has not offended or upset you. If it has - I do apologize.
But really, regardless of what anyone says and regardless of the FUD you may have about tearing apart your machine and doing this - it did work for me.
Everyone -
At the end of the day, I do want to be a part of this community and do not mean to be abrasive. I just have strong views and I am confident and willing to defend them when I feel it is warranted. I am a pretty chill person really - so to everyone that has read or will read this topic/forum/post please know that I am here to help, as much as I can, regarding this specific issue and any others that I may or may not post about in the future.
At the end of the day, I am not here to impress anyone or be rude to anyone - But if you come at me sideways like @evansd2 - I am not afraid to stand my ground and defend my viewpoints and thoughts about a specific problem I have with a VERY AWESOME company.
This isn’t personal - it’s a Business-Like Forum discussion about specific things. Plain and Simple.
I hope you are able to pull your unit back from the brink. If you use the method outlined by @ambeales1 you should video the entire procedure. It may be very valuable to someone else down the road.
Best of luck.