I was that one that wrote that outline for @ambeales1. This originally did happen to my machine. Except my PVC damage to my machine was extensive to say the least. I was that owner that started this whole topic.
My machine is apparently one of the very few that exists that has recovered from PVC damage.
Thank you for your apology and I accept. Yes, I did mean well, but should have thought better about what I was posting. That’s pretty up front about you to address it directly to all of us after the fact.
It wasn’t sideways and I was coming very directly after what you said implying the Glowforge is not telling people about pvc for some Secret Purpose.
It was fear mongering, there is no conspiracy against the users. I stand by everything I said except perhaps assuming you were being sarcastic. I still believe you were but it was an assumption, I suppose.
The rest of this discussion isn’t worth the time for either of us.
Thank you @Xabbess - I just wanted to clear the air and let you all know that I’m not the a$$face my debate posts portray me to be.
I’m just as real in my virtual life as I am in my real life. Honesty and integrity are important to some of us out there.
And if there is one thing I’ve learned in this life…it’s to realize your mistakes, admit you made them and then learn from them. Its worked for me for 33 years so…why not continue.
Thank you for your acceptance and your contribution to the topic.
Missed following up on this earlier, but I’m really glad you managed to repair your machine. (Your initial post helps anyone else who manages to accidentally “release the hounds of PVC” on their new babies.) 
Since I was here from the beginning, and we’ve had this discussion with Dan many a time, you might be interested to know the reason why Glowforge doesn’t specify in great big bold type that you shouldn’t cut PVC in the machines, and you might have already guessed it…legal reasons.
They can’t specify one hazard without specifying ALL hazards, or they open themselves up to lawsuits.
There are plastics, resins, chemicals of all kinds, and too many materials to name that can cause issues when cut in a laser…PVC and vinyl is just the most common one, because it appears in so many materials in a hidden way.
Anyway, that’s just so you know why they don’t tell us about it separately. I believe they tried to get a couple of general warnings into the language in the manual, and they might have listed vinyl specifically there. People do sometimes miss it. 
We all need to remember to be careful with any new material though, it’s no joke.
Thanks for sharing your experience with other people…it might keep them from having to go through the cleaning process after.
As you may have noticed, there are things on this forum that can be even more corrosive than hydrochloric acid.
It is all too easy to end up cutting the wrong materials, even for those of us with years of experience with lasers. I try never to expose myself or others to any cutter fumes, even if I know the material is “safe.” It is never truly safe to inhale any particulates or fumes produced by these machines.
It is great to see that it is not necessarily fatal to the machine or its owner. The proof is in the fact that your machine is still working months after your incident. Thank you for sharing the fruits of your hard experience.
Ahh yes. Sorry I got it all backwards. Good to hear you were successful.
And this EXACT thing is what makes me ashamed to admit to being American when I travel outside the US. Because we are so frigging stupid we have to be told not to touch the blades of our running chainsaws.
What I think is funny is that those very warning labels are there to protect those manufacturers FROM liability…
Just saying.
BECAUSE people have been stupid enough to actually DO those things and then sue the company. I mean, seriously.
I didn’t make the rules.
I agree with you it is 100% ridiculous - but the premise makes sense…if people choose to do stupid things and then sue because “they didn’t know” and win millions of dollars - simply affix a label. Problem solved. No more liability for other’s stupid mistakes and/or ideas…
Again, just saying.
I prefer not to enable stupidity. It’s just better all around if people think for themselves and take a little responsibility for their own actions.
You’re right, but when you live in a society that specifically builds the rules to enable stupidity - you have to play by those rules - Regardless of how you feel personally.
Taking responsibility for one’s actions depends solely on said persons morals and emotional intelligence. Most will scape goat by if given the opportunity.
So if a majority of the population is going to do that…then it would make sense to protect yourself from it - as a business/manufacturer.
Rather than thinking that you’re promoting stupidity - think of it as preventing it before it can happen.
We, as more intelligent and free thinkers are obligated to put up with stupidity because, bless their hearts, they don’t know any better. [I realize that may sound condescending - but I’m saying that to be as clear as possible]
I wanted to ask about this. May I?
If GF can’t do that for legal reasons - wouldn’t a “signed notice” or “waiver” be appropriate? Again, doesn’t have to be any bigger than a letter size sheet and could be part of the purchase process.
Maybe along the line…Congratulations on your new GF insert model here before we can ship your unit please agree to the following…yah de dah- yah de dah…signed or “agreed” copy on file for GF copy sent to new owners email.
Doesn’t seem that hard of a process to implement operationally. I don’t personally know what GF IT looks like or is capable of…but if GF can design a laser that can cut with the precision of .001 of an inch…
Designing and implementing a simple form of acknowledgement and streamlining it into the purchase process - pales in comparison.
That’s all I’m saying. I don’t know if it’s possible or if GF would be willing to do that.
However - I personally work in Operations and have designed my own department within a professional/government style environment. I’m familiar with the inner workings of things and working with other departments to get things done…
So when I say I know what it entails…I actually do.
That’s why I’m being so resilient to the idea that GF needs to warn people better (not trying to revive a dead horse here…just saying that is why).
I guess, after all that - could something like that “hypothetically” work?
No, actually we’re not. This is a ridiculous premise. The whole world is ablaze with stupidity right now, and it will kill us if we “put up” with it. I’m not allowing my family members to visit me who aren’t being careful about masking and exposure, for example. I have no obligation to “put up with” their stupidity.
I’m not going to jump off a cliff just because “everyone else does it,” nor am I going to “play by the rules that enable stupidity” and put up a sign at the cliff’s edge that says “danger, falling off cliffs may be harmful to your health.”
If you’re smart enough to do that, then you’re smart enough to know it’s important to read instructions, and not blame the company for not stuffing them down your throat.
American law has evolved quite weirdly over time. Many times the actual case was very different than what the law was spun into. Behind the “what any idiot would know” rule there was usually some skimming off the corners (often a lawyer justifying their fee, but chiseling to save a fraction of a cent just as likely).
Working in architecture the specifications get to the point of ridiculous that a set of drawings for a highrise in Australia that you could carry in one hand, could be hundreds of pounds for the same building in the US.
@geek2nurse
Woah. Ok. I hear you.
That is your choice and you have every right to do that. But also, keep in mind, you’re now the one to maintain the liability associated with that attitude. Which, if you do it right - you won’t have any.
I’d rather be aware of the stupidity around me than being afraid of it and I’d damn sure try and prevent it from happening rather than protect myself from it.
Thats the difference between proactive and reactive.
But the company is not a person! They are a business entity and last I checked…Business Entities are obligated to tolerate and put up with stupidity or they get sued. We’ve already covered this…
Regardless of how smart I am personally does not negate the fact the business entity should be obligated to warn me just like everyone else in their industry and beyond.
You’re seeing this through a personal lens. I’m looking at it from a business perspective.
You’re still wrong. If this were true nobody would be able to sell ANYTHING in this country. You keep talking about these rules, but there are no such rules. They may be the expectations of some members of the general public, but that does not in any way make them RULES.
There’s a basic expectation that most people who have thousands of dollars to spend on a piece of equipment probably have a reasonable amount of intelligence and common sense or they wouldn’t have been able to get their hands on that much money all at once, and therefore they can be expected to read directions and shouldn’t have to be told things like, “WARNING, if you drive your automobile into a brick wall it may cause damage to it and to yourself and your passengers.”
There you go again…assuming. Makes an ass out of u and me.
The rules are a euphemism for the environment we all live in. Yes society. And when you place expectations and make assumptions about what people should know based on the $ amout of said product…you’ve already lost.
You cannot assume your customer to know and you cannot expect anything but stupidity from your customers…
In which case, again, I’d try to cut through as much of it as I could - if that means putting up a dummy sign so I can deal with less bull$*it…then so be it.
What I’m trying to say is that stupidity is out there and it comes in all shapes and sizes - from all walks of life…stupidity is not confined to social status or how much extra $ someone has to spend on a product.
That is as you say:
This pandemic is making people have very long arguments over strange shit.