I get that. You’re a very active community member. You give your opinion on most things. I appreciate that, but it is not always going to be well received, especially in a situation like this. I wasn’t attacking you, I’m just giving my opinion on how your consistently positive perspective can come off as cheerleading when it precedes GF releasing yet another update filled with awful news.
What is your position, anyway? You don’t show up as a GF employee but you often give a perspective that would make me assume that you are at least somewhat associated with GF beyond simply being an owner.
None of this is meant as an attack. I know sometimes things read differently on the internet.
I appreciate that you’re at least civil and discussing your views intelligently.
It’s hard to not be optimistic when you have one of these in your hands. I haven’t had mine long but woah. Jules has had her pre-release quite a bit longer. I’ve seen several posters who were unhappy and negative before they received their units that are now 180• in their postings.
So if someone feels like some are cheerleaders - I say, so be it. Being mad at the company is one thing - but berating people of the company is uncalled for and ridiculous. Have we no respect for others anymore?
Just another customer. I’m one who has built a successful business though, so I recognize a lot of what’s going on, that the other customers might not realize. Occasionally I share a little bit of what I see, so they can also understand what’s going on.
I want Glowforge to create the machine, just like I assume most of the customers do. I chose to help them to build it by getting involved and offering assistance instead of berating them for running into trouble. That’s just my way of dealing with delays.
In the meantime, I’m not unsympathetic to the pain others are feeling. I am getting really tired of being snapped at for trying to help though, so I’m pretty much done with that.
Absolutely. I agree with that. It makes no sense to berate them. It isn’t going to get me a machine any faster. I think the frustration comes from hearing the positive “hang in there” chants from people who have machines. Like you said though, it should be a positive sign that the people who have units really love them.
I don’t think that respectfully sharing displeasure is unwarranted. It should be expected at this point but there is no reason to be mean spirited about it. So, I’ve tried to remain civil while still holding the GF folks accountable.
I apologize if my last post here seemed like an attack on anyone. Sometimes it’s too easy to say, “that’s easy for you to say.” It was rude and uncalled for.
I don’t know when my first print will be at this point, but I will share my projects here if they work out. I hope they will.
While the delays do hit hard, we have to remember that “Glowforge” is not just an entity. Glowforge is real people like Dan, Bailey, Rita, Jae, DanH plus many more that we don’t see too often in the forums or in emails to/from the company.
These are people who just want to do their jobs the best they can. While frustrations may be vented at glowforge the entity or directly at Dan, and while it is Dan’s/Glowforge’s job to reassure those folks, the things that people post here do affect the employees. It’s almost impossible to put them out of mind. Nobody would like to hear negative comments about their employer’s practices. I know first hand how customers making comments RE: employer being sheisters and cheats, makes you feel about a job that you actually like and pour your heart into.
If people don’t like the cheerleading posts, they can simply opt to not read them, same as the cheerleaders don’t need to read the negative posts. There is no need for either camp to post more in effort to shift the balance either direction. Like minds always find each other rather effortlessly.
Just remember that our direct access to a start-up company’s top brass and key personnel is unprecedented. I don’t know how a company could be any more transparent than this, when there is absolutely no other company that gives this sort of access.
“We have all required certifications for the US, but no other country.”
ie you have / had not completed any international certification, and therefore all international ship dates depend on the individual certification processes for each destination country.
This in itself is a massive job, and does not increase confidence.
Again, I suggest to offer crowdfunding pre-orders the option to cancel and buy later at the original price. If (as I believe you’ve said elsewhere) the money is held in a safe account earning just 1%, why not give it back?
This would be a decisive commitment to your crowd, preserve good will and possibly even retain / recover more buyers over the long term - I would still be a likely buyer if I could reach a position of certainty on delivery and support.
My point is that situation is now so far beyond the expectations at the point of contract that GF needs to consider a better resolution.
It’s not clear to me that a comparable situation exists for other companies - after all, this was at the time one of the largest crowd funding raises ever achieved and (in hindsight) for a product more difficult to execute than was represented by the marketing material.
Can you suggest another example where the customers of a company have borne the risk and cost of capital in this volume and for this length of time?
I don’t agree - there is no clarity on the order of creditors on that account should GF actually fail. We have borne and continue to bear the risk and consequences of delay, and we have borne the cost of capital for a far longer period than anticipated, without the advertised income potential for the unit being realised.
Again, I’m not aware of any comparable examples in the market - can you suggest any?
The request is beyond unrealistic. No one is so naive to believe that if funds were returned with the option to buy back later at the original price that most would find other things to do with that money. Humans are creatures of instant gratification and little willpower. What you are really asking is for GF to make a decision for you.
You don’t see the irony in telling me it’s not my place to give an opinion?
I’m not trying to piss you off. But it’s not one person that makes a business model.
I’m very happy with the pre-Release unit that I have been loaned. And been waiting longer than almost anyone for my Pro other than staff. I don’t want my money back. Looking forward to receiving an email. But if they offered it to me and told me I can buy at the original purchase price, I might take them up on it. And pretty sure I would not buy the GF later because the money would be long spent. Gotta believe most people would do the same unless they needed the unit for something. Has nothing to do with GF the company or the product. I would do the same thing with almost any expensive purchase.
Totally accept your opinion, just not your right to tell me what I am thinking.
But agreed, the sense of this for GF depends on how many orders are bleeding at his point and how much goodwill they think they can salvage.
But why if a punter could afford it previously would we assume they now cannot? And given the money is in escrow, what benefit do GF have by holding on to it (ignoring the 1% interest as negligible)?
They would do better in the short term to sell “my” unit at a much higher margin to one of the apparent backlog of full price orders and then hopefully sell me a unit later as well.
I might not agree but never one to worry about winning. If you understand what I was trying to say I’m good with that. I understand what you are saying.
Fair enough, and thanks. likewise, only putting a point of view which I think has merit, and quite happy to discuss. A bit moot for me now, as I’ve pushed the button anyway, but not without regrets…
1% interest on just shy of 29 million dollars isn’t exactly negligible.
In fact compounded monthly comes out to a little below 600k over 2 years. I suspect a decent bit of what they are “giving back” to us is coming right out of what they have made holding onto all of our money…
Because a lot changes in two years with regards to financial situations and people carry balances on their credit cards (ie: they couldnt actually afford it in the first place).
True, and don’t misudertand me - I’m quite realistic on the likelihood of this coming to pass.
But the argument of potential retention of the order later, retaining goodwill and the short term benefits of selling the same unit at full price to a backlogged post crowdfund customer still stand.
So far, I’m out and not coming back if I have to pay full price.
