Not to mention the software not offering the features advertised. I bought the filter because I don’t have a practical way to vent and the pro because I want to cut parts bigger than 12". I won’t have what I ordered until the filter arrives and the software does pass through. I don’t mind waiting until the machine gets to that point so I don’t see why the compensation finishes when I am offered something far less than I ordered that doesn’t do what I ordered it for and may take another six weeks to arrive.
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And I don’t get why you don’t understand that the extra credits are a voluntary gesture by GF they chose to do. And as such they get to determine what the conditions of that voluntary offer will be. I do understand you’d like more but that’s not what they decided to do. Kind of like my kids not understanding why they didn’t get more Christmas presents. Not that hard to get.
Also not sure why you don’t think the pass through is usable without the trick auto alignment features which I admit are delayed and would be welcome especially because that was part of the sales proposition. But manual indexing is a pretty basic technique in the CNC world. Been doing it forever. Even the Redsail laser requires manual indexing so it’s not something that bothers me. I can deal with it. Surprised with your vast experience it’s an issue preventing you from using longer material.
So they are giving you the opportunity to get a functional unit early or wait for what you ordered to come in a single delivery. Your choice. But their voluntary credit stops accruing after they’ve provided you the opportunity to get a functional but admittedly not complete.
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I can understand why GF don’t want to bleed money but why they think it is enough compensation to keep customers is a mystery.
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For those of us who cannot vent out a window (no matter how ‘easy’ it is) without the air filter, the unit is no more functional than it would be if it were shipped without the laser tube.
I ordered Oct. 20, 2015.
Ship date Nov. 29, 2017
Filter ship date May 4, 2018
After hanging in there this long, it burns that my only options are
- To cancel
- Take possession of a nonfunctional GF and let it sit collecting dust until the filter arrives while simultaneously chewing through 6 months of the warranty (this is assuming the filter actually ships May 2018, more on this below)
- Decline shipment of the GF until the Air Filter is ready. Six extra months (at least) of no machine, no $20/monthly credit accrual, and six months less of the 10% Founder’s Discount. (The Founder’s 10% discount should, in my opinion, be extended to begin with arrival of the machine – otherwise founder’s who received their machines early were doubly rewarded with more months of the discount, too.)
None of the above options are appealing. All of them leave me angry in one way or another.
Additionally, has anyone even seen a working air filter in the wild? At this point, I fear that after waiting an additional six months for the air filter, it will either be scrapped altogether, or the delivery date pushed out again and again and again just like the GF.
I don’t remember all the particulars now, but when an announcement was made about replacing the laser tubes that the vocal users didn’t like, they pushed back and that resulted in the policy being changed. Perhaps if those of us who cannot use the 
without the air filter are vocal enough, GF will hear us and make it right.
*edited to correct purchase date from 10/24/15 to 10/20/15
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True enough. I have a Pro with filter on order myself as I didn’t want to vent out through a window/wall. Can’t do it from the windows in the main floor of the house as they are sideways opening casements about 60" tall. So that puts me in the basement. That’s problematic because the basement doesn’t have a/c so it gets over the target temps for a Basic but not a Pro. So I can empathize.
That doesn’t change the fact that you can decline to take early shipment because as you said it doesn’t help you and will just eat warranty and gather dust.
But, to decide that the gift they’re providing to make up in some way for their delays is insufficient simply because you can’t take an early shipment indicates that you’re not considering it a gift but rather an entitlement. They chose to give it, they can choose not to or under what circumstances they are willing to do that. They have said it’s up until the point you’re offered a unit.
Many, many folks have griped about the “unfairness” of them limiting the gift they’ve chosen to give and they’ve been consistent in saying it’s not changing.
Hope does spring eternal though, so pile on. Maybe this time they’ll change. I’d just not count on that. But sometimes whistling into the wind is soul satisfying nonetheless.
(And let’s not start an argument about whether it’s a “gift” or if we’re owed it or more. Our contract with GF is pretty clear and the delays are what they are. They’re not in & of themselves cause to require a payment of any kind from GF. The contract is clear as to our options and if we choose to take instead an offer by GF that adds a third way, then that too is our choice.)
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Since you brought up contracts… I consider the add-ons an addendum to our original contract. My original contract with GF was that the laser and the filter would ship together. There certainly was NO mention of it shipping separately at the time I placed my order. No mention of the two shipping separately until sometime around two updates ago. Indeed, BEFORE ordering, I emailed GF directly and received an email response… My laser cutter and filter would ship by the end of June 2016. Again, NO mention of them shipping separately.
Was the snark necessary?
When the “gifts” (your words) were announced, all pre-orders were to be shipped within a relatively tight schedule… within 30 days or something?? So now that some Founders received their units a few months ago and have been enjoying the 10% off Founder’s discount and will continue to do so through the end of 2018-- but other Founders will not receive their units until many months later, it doesn’t seem equitable?
When one gets to “choose” between a rock and a hard spot, it’s interesting who will come out to then criticize those having to make that choice.
On a side note, I find it interesting that those who are the most upset by those of us expressing legitimate concerns about delays and pointing out the disproportionate compensation for said delays, are those that received pre-release units. Since their delay experience is not quite the same as the delay for the rest of us, it is curious that they would spend so much energy negating our concerns/frustrations.
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And they. As will mine. But GF is providing us an option not to have to wait (my date is May something) if we’re willing to split it.
Not negating your frustrations, just pointing out the gift horse issue. GF was under no obligation to do anything. They chose to offer us $20/month until our GF (not GF & filter) is ready.
Perhaps those of us with PRUs or beta units know something that helps provide perspective (in addition to having spent months helping GF get the thing production ready). It’s a point of view you can choose to do with as you will.
If you’re successful in getting GF to pony up more credits it helps us all. If you’re counting on that then you’re most likely to be building up to more disappointment. But maybe we’ll all get something of it.
I’ve reread this multiple times and pondered considerably. Still can’t figure out what it means.
You say gift horse, I say contract addendum. But the point is moot because you are confusing credits with discounts. Please reread my original post. Although it would be nice (and some would say honorable) for the credits to include the months that some buyers’ orders (mine included) were arbitrarily split by GF to separate the laser from the filter-- my issue (in this thread) was with the DISCOUNTS not being prorated from ship date. To restate, my issue is that all Founders put their money in early. All Founders were offered a 10% discount as a contract addendeum by way of apology for missed deadlines. Some Founders will receive a 10% discount for 15 months. Other Founders will receive a 10% discount for a few months (if at all once the filters finally ((if ever)) ship). Same skin in the game. Not the same compensation.
Let’s put this another way. You and I ordered brand new cars at the same time. Both were supposed to arrive at the same time. There are delays. We both hang in there together. At some point, the car company gives me a loaner. You didn’t get one. The delivery date is delayed. Then delayed again. And again. And again. ( I’m lovin’ my loaner. It’s awesome!) By way of apology, the car company offers a rebate to both of us. Ever so many dollars per month of delay. A year later, the car company starts to ship cars. A few months after that, the car manufacturer tell us that cars will ship without heaters. Owners that wish to wait for a car with a heater are welcome to do so, but the before-mentioned apology incentives will no longer apply. I already have a loaner so I’m not sweating it. Additionally, I (in this hypothetical scenario) live in a temperate climate so I can make do without a heater. You, on the other hand, live in Alaska (or another cold climate with many months of winter), so a car without a heater is useless to you. So your choices are now to accept a car without a heater (which is useless to you) or to wait for a car with a heater. Either way, your apology incentives cease the minute the car company lets you know your heaterless vehicle is ready for you. Now, you take to the car company’s forums to express your concern and to commiserate with people in the same boat as you. How happy are you, in this scenario, to hear from me (or those like me) telling you how this is your choice to stay in this boat? I didn’t order a heaterless vehicle. I didn’t order a filter-less laser. Waiting for a car with a heater should not result in 12 fewer months of 10% discount than other founders.
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I’ve neither the hypothetical loaner nor PRU nor a functional 
. They’ve offered what they offered. The terms are equally applied to everyone. You(respectfully allowed) are looking at it as unequal in outcome. Both are equal from their respective perspectives.
If I promise a person $20 to work a full day and then at lunch I hire someone else to work until the end of day $20, and then pay each what was agreed, have I done anything wrong? I’m sure the person who worked all day may feel gyped, but I fulfilled my contractual agreement to both. I treated them equally: work for me until the end of day for $20. The feelings of the first person don’t dictate the terms nor should they allow that envy to take hold.
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Huh?
We’re talking contracts. And the equality of contracts. Envy has nothing to do with it.
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You’re equating apples to oranges. That’s not what GF did.
GF offered the SAME apology incentives to ALL founders at the time they were offered. At the time the incentives were offered, all founders orders were to ship within about a 30 day period of each other (as memory serves). Only later (after MANY delays) did the apology incentives become unequal–especially after GF arbitrarily split the orders of lasers from the filters.
That has created an issue for folks unable to use a laser without a filter.
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The filters have never been stated to ship same time as the laser. That was assumption. 1 contract, 1 promise, 1 method of fulfillment. Looks equal to me. Unequal would be treating everyone different. They aren’t. You just don’t like how their singular policy turned out for you(pretty sure no one has liked how everything turned out to be 2 years later).
You want the effect that others have. When one want what is others, that’s called envy.
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Hi fellow GF founders. I don’t really want to get in the middle of this heated but very important discussion, but I’ll add what I’ve been thinking.
Extending the warentee was a great idea. It is equitable across all founders.
The discount was equitable when they thought they were going to blast them out of the factory. None of us would be too upset if the term differed by a couple of months. Now that it turns out it’s going to stretch out, it’s no longer a good idea as it puts some at a disadvantage.
It’s really not fair that some will get a year+ of discounts and some will get 6- months no matter how you slice it. The discount program was conceived in good intentions, but the delays make it problematic. It’s upsetting customers. I’m upset by it.
I’m hoping they realize this and make a change.
Regarding the filter, I can only go by actual performance. I consider it unlikely that they will ship on the date they indicate. I decided to change my plans, settle on a far less awesome location in my studio, cut a hole in my wall and cancel the filter. I’m relieved and feel quite lucky that I have this option given the delay of the filter.
For those who can’t do this,I feel terrible because like you, I planned everything around the filtered solution. But to rely on that new date is a giant risk. You have to make your own decision but venting out a window or wall is probably necessary if you want to use a GF in 2018.
I am doing a project now where a laser cutter would make my life so much easier. I yell #%@$ Glowforge at least three times a day. But I hang in. Mostly because of you guys and gals. So, thanks.
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Sorry. Missed a “will”. The laser & filter will ship together (yours as well as mine - I’m still waiting too). 
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Yes! That’s what I was trying to say but you said it much better.
I want what was promised in the contract addendum.
April 2016 Update, Dan announces the new delivery schedule (Dec. 2016 for all pre-orders) and the apology incentives. One of which is Founder Status and 10% discount off all catalog and Proofgrade materials through 2017. (This was later updated through end of 2018.)
If all of Founders had received their units in December 2016, then all would’ve received a 10% discount for approximately 12 months.
As it stands now, some Founders will receive a discount for perhaps 15 or 16 months. Those who have to wait for the filter will receive the discount for six months or less. (Assuming the filters really ship in 2018. If they don’t, then Founders having to wait for the filter will not receive the 10% discount at all.)
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It was not a contract addendum. It was a promised concession.
So you refer to the original purchase agreement as a contract but changes to that contract are not addenda?
No. It was not a change to the contract. No more than all the posts in this forum or any of Dan’s speeches. Contracts are legal documents executed by multiple parties. The promise of credits and discounts post-delay are not contracts nor contractual addenda.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on what we call the apology incentives.
But the bottom line remains the same…At the time of the announcement, all Founders were supposed to receive their orders within December 2016. And all Founders were promised a discount through the end of 2017 – roughly 12 months. Due to the delays and schedule changes, some Founders will receive more than 12 months and some will receive far less.
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