Discussion of the August 2017 update

Everything Else
66

I could definitely be wrong, but my interpretation is that the forum home page statement is a stronger commitment to ‘ship’ by 31 Oct than that they are ‘working on’ delivering them by 31 Oct, and I believe they have confirmed that they’re shipping definition is to send out the email asking for your shipping address. Surely they are working to deliver them as soon as possible, and to be fair it does seem like the average wait time between shipping email and package actually going out the door has been well less than 6 weeks.

edited to include reference:

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67

Me too. The previous announcement foreshadowing safe use of the Pro in the wild came a couple days after I accepted shipping on the basic… On the other hand, I’ve had a machine to use for several additional months.

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68

This was his answer to the question that I linked above

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69

Still hopeful enough to keep checking email. Would be amazing to get our pro in time for the holidays.

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70

Not yet, though my order was about midway through the opening campaign period. So I’m not expecting an email until deep in September.

71

I agree with you that it has been pointed many times. It is one thing to express frustration about the shipping delays (and I have done that more that a couple times), but when innuendos of lying, nearly criminal deception and blatant fraud comes from someone over shipping delays and features still being implemented (versus not being ready at the shipping of the product), it is clear that trust in the company and the CEO of that company does not existing.

Here is why I ask the question of “why chose to keep your order” and since Glowforge has (without question) refunded people’s monies upon canceling (which deceptive company would not do), if someone has regularly question the honesty and integrity of a company/product

Rather than continuing to add acid to the wound/sore spots for others, find the product that meets the need/desire, buy it and promote it. If Glowforge IS that product, lament the fact the shipping delays have occurred and encourage others to hang in there (not continue to irritate those in the same boat who have been waiting 20 months since the first delay).

Glowforge has done a very poor job of meeting their ship dates and even created a pattern of “bad news” announcements. Making poor prognostications (from limited data that isn’t even from Glowforge) to bad mouth a company (for whatever satisfaction is brings someone) really isn’t helping anyone. Putting out numbers won’t change where things are at.Those numbers are for the investors (buying a unit or two - or more - is still only a customer designation) and the board of directors.

Finding a balance between useful information vs idle curiosity (for any company) is incredibly difficult. Even Apple and/or Microsoft doesn’t release numbers beyond what is required by the SEC. The numbers seen are just those compiled by 3rd parties and generally accepted as what is happening in the market.

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72

Or… You’ll never know what was removed…

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73

My order (Basic) wasn’t until October 6, so my guess is that I will get one of the last ones, sometime in later October. The up-side is that we get more $$ to spend in the store because of the delays.

74

Well, the crowdfunding campaign ended October 26th, so you do have people behind you.

75

Good deal @dan. If the Pro Training has a video element to it, I’d love to get ahold of that ahead of time and get some knowledge in me. Would It be possible for us to get access to the Pro Training early?
Right now all I have is Fire Marshall Bill’s training, and…
IMG_1919
I don’t think this guy is on the level.

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76

We release it when your Glowforge ships, so you’ll have time before it arrives.

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77

Dan, thanks for the extra details/answers/replies :smile:
Fantastic seeing how things are moving forward!

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78

@dan
Your announcement and timely responses are fantastic!
Keep on keepin’ on sir! You are awesome!

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79

The pro training manual is more to make sure you’re legally covered as a trained “Laser safety officer” than a get to know your a Glowforge kind of thing. I found a free laser course on the University of a British Columbia’s website a while back that covered very similar material.

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80

While I understand your perspective, no one should have to justify why they’re here. They’re here because they bought a laser (i mean, preordered. Whatever) and waited around with all the rest of us. That’s it. That’s all there is to it.

I know on the whole things around here tend to be helpful and informative and cavity-inducingly sweet, especially for an internet forum, but everyone is different and there’s no rule that everyone must hold the same opinions or priorities or viewpoints. If I bought my glowforge solely to figure out what the heck an ultrasonic weld is, and then I plan to use it as the world’s most terribly designed cereal bowl, I’m still allowed to be here, yeah? You sure don’t have to like it and you’re welcome to think I’m a nut. But I don’t think I should have to explain myself to anyone.

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81

Are we still on this schedule?

@dan “We’re working to have them all delivered by that date - although international customers have a higher chance of us missing our date.”

Oct 31 is All preorders; “Shipping” (Golden ticket email sent), “Shipping”(in the hands of the punishers aka UPS) or “Delivered”(in the hands of the owner)?

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82

Because the world isn’t black and white. I can believe that someone is, or has been, dishonest about a particular thing and not believe that they are so dishonest that I wont get what I paid for eventually. I for one am in the camp that thinks the first few timelines, and the witholding of info in the leadup to the delays, is dishonest. I believe that they knew they wouldn’t make it in time. Especially as it neared the announcement of the delays. I can believe that and, at the same time, believe that they will still honor my purchase… eventually.

Again, this is totally subjective. Some people find his contribution helpful. Youre basically telling people to go away because you don’t like or are tired of seeing what they have to say but that’s not how a forum works.

Again, this is helpful to some people. Its just not helpful to you. The desire to assemble some sense of order to this by taking a community and consolidating our own info is made necessary by glowforges lack of communication on the issue. They wont provide shipping numbers (which would alleviate at least some of the worry) and so people postulate where they are themselves.

Perhaps not, but they also generally hit their release schedules. And when the dont, they get flack for it just as glowforge has.

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83

It’s been ~70 days, how many have been delivered? 100 maybe?

84

@dan - just checking my understanding (and calendar math):

  1. You’re providing a 6 week lead time/6 week window with the email you’re sending out notifying individuals of their GlowForge readying to ship
  2. You’ve committed to delivering all pre-orders (ordered before October 25, 2015) by October 31, 2017
  3. All other pre-orders are getting delivered by November 30, 2017.
  4. Filters are shipping in December 2017. Individuals have the option to delay shipment until the filter is ready, but are not required to.

Ergo, anyone who ordered in the first window should receive their shipping notification email NO LATER THAN September 19, 2017. And anyone who ordered after that should receive their shipping notification email NO LATER THAN October 19, 2017. Some, after receiving their notification, may choose to delay their shipment (to wait for the filter); that’s their choice.

If you guys can actually pull this off, we’ll all be cheering and absolutely astounded.

On the other hand, I find this logistically improbable, based on the limited shipments to date and the reported packaging/shipping problems. But that’s what you’re committing to.

Now for the blunt words.
As others have alluded to, this sounds very like the update from November of last year, where everything was happiness and sunshine, followed in a few weeks by an announcement of a huge delay (where, after reading, it was OBVIOUS you had to know the delay was coming when you made the November announcement).

A second instance of this kind of deceit (strong words, I know, but what else would you call it?) would definitely result in a total loss of faith in this company. After all, this is very different from a typical purchase, where interaction with the manufacturer is limited once the product is received. The machine cannot even operate without connectivity to your servers. We will be leveraging your software, relying on your support, ordering ProofGrade materials, etc. for years to come. If you set a precedent that you can’t be relied upon/trusted, then what hope do we have that we will be able to continue to operate this machine successfully in the future?

I do feel like I suffer from BiPolar disorder with respect to this campaign. At times, I am berating other members for holding Dan accountable for not meeting their expectations, when it was clear their expectations had little in common with the reality of the campaign. And at other times, like this one, I am castigating GlowForge for not providing more insight, or for misleading us on the schedule. But I think the common thread in the cases where I become negative is when, from my perspective, GlowForge has intentionally (with or without malice) provided false information.

I hope that I am wrong, and that GlowForge can really pull this off.

I know if I don’t have my shipment email in September, I will be giving up on this company. They’ve used up their last chance.

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85

My thoughts exactly - if another delay concerning international deliveries is announced after the “no change” now, I’ll want to know exactly how long ago the problems leading up to it were known… “CE certification? Oh, we thought we’d do that before lunch on September 18th… had no idea that took more than five minutes…”

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