I think that this is reading too much into a simple statement, and is one of the reasons that they are so limited in how they respond.
You have no way of knowing if they have “negotiated” at this time. I would venture that they have, as they have been shipping pre-release units for a while now. In the end, shipping rates, especially for a multi-box bulk item like this can change over time. There is no reason for them to give us numbers now only to have to modify them later (in July when the latest deadline is) should they change.
No single person should expect their unit before one of the two deadlines. The only thing we can hold them to in terms of a deadline is if we ordered before 10/26/15, then we will have our unit by 7/31/17, and if we ordered after 10/26/15, then we will have our unit by 8/31/17.
Even their “most customers” delivery window is a whopping four months that covers out to the last deadline.
All I’m saying is that most people should temper their expectations, lest they be disappointed come April, May, or June and they don’t have their machine.
We get no proper answers so have to glean information from what is not said.[quote=“chadmart1076, post:61, topic:5842”]
You have no way of knowing if they have “negotiated” at this time. I would venture that they have, as they have been shipping pre-release units for a while now. In the end, shipping rates, especially for a multi-box bulk item like this can change over time. There is no reason for them to give us numbers now only to have to modify them later (in July when the latest deadline is) should they change.
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When I shipped 3D printers all over the world I knew which courier I was using for each country and the delivery time that I was paying for. E.g. UPS express saver which took about 2 days to the US. Yes it did change over time but I could always answer my customers questions and never had to evade or flannel.
To be more precise, the only thing we can currently expect are these dates. We can’t actually hold them accountable for anything. Nothing happens on 7/31 if they’re not shipping except their $20/mo credit ticks up one more month’s worth.
The speculative stories that seem to abound are just that, stories. Speculations can occur around any number of possible scenarios, but they are just stories and bear no real weight on the true nature of what is going on. That is only known to those within GF. Getting filled with angst and suspicion about hypotheticals can help pass the time, but as you say, we only actually know two dates. Anything else and we would have to ask “Is that true, and do we know absolutely whether it is true or not”. Unless we are on the inside and intimately privy to the inner workings of GF, the answer to both of those is no.
We will be patient. Why? Because there is no other choice. Banging our head against a speculative wall won’t change the pace of things (and besides, I’m loving the sweet anticipation, and the tantalizing glimpses of pre-release and beta test projects shared here). I have so many other projects and creative avenues outside of GF that not having it yet isn’t going to slow down my ability to make and create one bit.
Then you set yourself up for disappointment when the reality happens and isn’t what you expected or gleaned.
And there is nothing that we’ve been told that indicates that they don’t know exactly the same. We know they don’t tell us everything, and we know there are a myriad of reasons (lawyers, competition, etc…) for why they don’t tell us.
I apologize for harping on this, but it’s deeply seated in me to avoid assuming anything because I hated my last boss who did it all the time. For example, he assumed that because an inductive vehicle detection loop (I’m a traffic engineer) was labeled incorrectly, that I didn’t know how they worked and I got several paragraphs on the workings of inductive loops. I had 10 years of experience at that time, and had simply typed the label incorrectly.
For a year I was banging my head against the wall every time someone would parse a statement or assume from scant info that deliveries were eminent. Turns out that even I was too optimistic by about 9 months and counting. People will do or think what they want. But I agree with you. Though I expect earlier deliveries I have no firm reason to do so. Technically there could be no deliveries until the last week of July and Dan’s post would be accurate. Misleading or vague? Sure. But still accurate.
I don’t think I could be more disappointed than I am now. I have given up all hope of getting a GF pro to the UK this year, and possibly ever. If I do get one in May then it will be a great surprise but the longer nothing is finalised the less likely this seems.
Yes… You keep saying that. I’m saying that Glowforge already has both tempered and set our expectations. I expect to know that thousands of units are produced in April and I expect production units to begin shipping no later than May. My expectation is clearly reasonable as it was stated by the company, not me. It says, in no uncertain terms, “IN MAY.” Not “around May,” or “between May and some other month.” In May. There is no better way to set an expectation than to be clear. And it is. I didn’t name those months, Glowforge did. I can’t decide that for them.
The only reason I’m commenting again is because you seem so adamant. Your assumption and expectations are reasonable. The parsing is however questionable. May through August could easily mean anytime between May and August. Though I believe May deliveries were the intended interpretation.
To @thomas.alessi.jr’s defense “in May” is pretty explicit. Yes, they might take until August to complete but someone needs to start getting them in May or it’s another miss. Although to be technical, if they ship just a single production unit in May, that could be claimed by GF as victory.
However, if they really do ramp production up to hundreds and then thousands, it would make no sense at all to keep them warehoused instead of shipping them out.
Thanks. It’s not an interpretation though… It actually says “WILL get their deliveries IN May through August.” The only thing that means is that some of the “most” will get theirs in May. And that’s what I want to know happens here in reality. I mean, I’m not makin’ this stuff up here. That’s what it says.
Dan’s no slouch when it comes to his use of the English language. And, while I can’t be 100% sure, I’d bet money that statements like the ones he made passed through legal council first. Lawyers are pretty keen on using appropriate words and, as I’ve seen, so is Dan… IN and BETWEEN being something somebody’d catch.
Not trying to be a jackass here. Just that there keeps being some discussion and I don’t understand it when it’s spelled out so clearly.
And actually, there should be stuff earlier if they’re building hundreds on the way to thousands in March and April or they’re stacking stuff in a warehouse. Most contract build places don’t like maintaining stock in their warehouse - they get their efficiencies by moving stuff through the entire chain from raw material in all the way to the finished product on the loading dock being trundled into a truck.
I agree that the phrasing means they could come anytime between those two, but oh well. I do get the impression that there is so much unhappiness about the delays, though, that interpretations and definitions and understandings are being made as a sort of righteous indignation, and a form of “…if I ran the world…”, as a friend of mine puts it.
Hell hath no fury like customers who feel they have been wronged, I think. It looks to me like a case of no project can ever be run as well as by those who are not charged with doing it.
My sympathies to the folks at GF who have had to weather the backlash and the disappointed customers and keep a cheerful disposition through it all.
My last bit on the subject will be this… I expect my unit shipped by July 31st. That said, I’m in for the long-haul even if that date is missed.
In my opinion, the only reason to really care about the rest of it is if I were on the fence about keeping the order… and I’m very firmly planted inside that fence, so it doesn’t matter to me.
My discussions above are really not about the Glowforge or whether they are hitting their targets, but really about the rampant assumptions that happen here based on incomplete information, and how in the long run, those assumptions really lead only to sustained disappointment. I choose to be optimistic. It might make the disappointment worse when something does go wrong, but at least it’s all at once and I’m not miserable thinking about the worst outcome possible through the entire process.
